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I do agree that swordsman is underpowered, and wizard need some nerf. I never denied it. But what I really meant is that most of the people here don’t even understand about swordsman because swordsman has low skill floor.
Do you understand what is skill floor? Something that’s easy to use don’t always mean it’s OP, it merely means it will easily win at low skill level.
If you had played dota, swordsman is like the pre-buffed invoker (ironically that’s a mage hero), it’s underpowered, most player is sht on it, but still an extremely strong hero in the right hand.
Again, anyone that want to comment on swordsman should probably participate in at least 100 open field war, or solo grind to at least 270 (which is possible even on a templar), to understand about the true weakness of swordsman, before you gave suggestion that will actually fk up the class again (like how they actually overbuffed wiz 3 by having it on permanent duration due to low skilled player whining on how wiz 3 is underpowered during icbt2).
no sorry, it’s not like sword man need high skill cap just because sword man are too weak in pvp compare too other class (even archer are better at pvp when both physical class sucks)
you get the wrong idea, you don’t even know how to compare and even think straight about it
this guy consider one of best sword man who upload in YT
this salt at pre - cryo - psycho nerf
what he have said
"psychokino + Animus(nec ACC) = have high HP / magic attack
psychokino’s combo can deal 3~50000 damage (No INT)
and WE CAN NOT ANYTHING
just die"
btw
in CBT wiz c3 dont’ have attribute who increased magic dmg by 50% on their quick cast, but now they have so they don’t even whine once again
got it ?
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Did you realize that all my statement for swordsman is strictly against non cryo/kino? Those 2 class is just broken in PvP. Please don’t use them as comparison.
My initial statement is that swordsman can fight against mage IF they are not cryo/kino.
It’s not only swordsman player that felt that cryo kino is OP, every other classes too.
Also, I based my swordsman experience on open field war, which is already killed by neutrality. So it probably doesn’t matter anyway.
then what do you think what’s better pvp sword man build than
swordman c3 > cata c3 > dragoon ? No
then why not compare the best pvp build of each class type ?
seems pretty like heaven and hell right ?
like what your logic as i knew
other wiz build is normal with sword man ? hell no. just normal with cata c3 > dragoon since they have fast close gap and cc lock
other wiz build still better than other sword man build other than cata3 > dragoon
got it ?
Any doppel can win against mage without cryo/kino as long as you can evade the sleep.
Also, rodelero is actually useful in open field war due to the knockdown and magic immunity.
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what a load of croc
20
no cryo/psycho right ? how about an popular pve wiz build
wiz c3 > elementalist c3 > warlock ?
miss sleep ? no problem, frost cloud here come to papa
run around wait for from could run out, oh hey i got an charged meteor which can one shot or get 90% of your hp
so you still survive ? petrify then wait to other skill to cd, don’t forget to setup hail and promience after petrify
then you still want to get near me ? dark surge, pole of agony
ok, that’s only half of the common combo
so that’s easy life for an dopel to win against considered pve wiz
ha, i’m so full of this non sense “wiz are normal except cryo, psycho” shiet
btw
that 10s magic immunity with turlte moving speed from slithering is an … haha i laugh hard enough , thank you
You missed the point.
CON + Aias on wiz = GG physical attack.
No matter what you do, no matter how skilled you are, no matter how brilliant you tactic is, if your attack doesn’t connect, you lose. There’s no way to bypass this as a swordman.
Also, elementalist still have it easy in PvP, since you can drop hail + frost cloud and run around, the damage will still keep going. If you run around as swordman, you do nothing.
Also, as PvE oriented as elementalist is, you still have 2 good CC: sleep and stone curse. Most swordmen have no CC
Swordman cannot reach wiz due to the range CC. Only cata have a good chance to do so. And historically, only cata 3 shows up on PvP leaderboard, nothing else matters in swordman tree
That also means it has less to do with the skill, more with the build.
Now I get why most ele 3 Warlock is bad in pvp and only cast frost cloud to hope that their enemy step on it. Their enemy is mostly retarded. I never dream of any average pvper would even step into the aoe spell. Hell, if you cast and miss a spell, swordsman can get into melee range usually.
Seriously, it’s not that hard to avoid the aoe spell. I had never seen any competent swordsman retarded enough to step into any ele 3 aoe spell.
Try playing against a good cata 3, or even a doppel.
Yes I agree to this, but in open field war such wizard is a useless moving stone (not cryo 3/kino3) due to their low damage (no, animus won’t help with the damage, full CON elememe is overrated), and can be easily kited around as they can’t kill you instantly. I’m not going to start on how useless full CON elememe is in GvG (they are good in arena mode due to various limitation that’s advantageous to them), but you can just ignore them and they can’t do anything.
In arena mode your choice against wizard is actually limited, so it’s natural that wizard will have big advantage in arena (still mainly cryo 3/kino 3).
Yes, now imagine that you have to stand still and channel your frost cloud/hail for the full duration. That’s what swordman is.
Not only low damage, they are sitting duck, on front line. Only cata see some lights in PvP due to their mobility. The rest sucks.
You want to burst in GvG? party with a psychokino and charge meteor to level 1 only. That, and rain + electrocute as well
Hail + frost cloud is used for zoning, not burst.
I dont know why you guys all complain about wizards.
Clerics are the most solid of the 4.
Giving STR the ability to block penetration is a direct CON nerf.
Think of it this way, if STR had the ability to penetrate evasion then that would be an evasion nerf as well.
Dex still has accuracy and crit rate going for it as well. CON is perhaps a little weak to begin with. Nerfing con-block is not the way to buff swordie.
Yes im considering rerolling a wiz too due to a friend of mine whom I met when I was still on my sword, he’s at his 200’s now he’s a pure con wiz mainly built for pvp saying that I should have gone wiz as going pure con is viable thanks to animus you can be at god mode high dmg, few cc’s , range advantage, high block rate due to con and a massive amount of hp also due to pure con build but sadly I cant as I can only play 1-2 hours a day after work rerolling again would just make me stay at the lower 150’s even longer when I should have been at the 200’s if only my sword wasn’t such a disappointment pshh… but its fine im having fun with my qs3 atm… anyways all I wanted when I started playing this game was to deal a decent amount of dps as a sword as I love playing with sword wielding toons, doesnt matter if its not as good as other classes but can deal decent dps but seeing how other classes dmg compared to mine its almost im not helping at all there were mission runs wherein I didn’t bother to attack the boss but still we were able to finish the mission with almost the same clear time with me attacking funny isn’t it? Good thing my friends doesnt mind carrying my sword before lol.
Quote myself
Unless you have a better idea to help physical class bypass 800-900 block (not to mention stone skin), I’m all ears.
DEX counter itself. SPR somewhat counter CON, but no physical classes build SPR at the moment for obvious reason.
CON is in no way weak. CON counters STR and INT just by adding more HP. Then counter STR more with block, then counter DEX with crit resist.
well, there is no problem. full con and a shield should give you that much block. shouldn’t it? i though the problem was they could still easily kill you.
ever since this game started i’ve wondered why they don’t use more stats, they could add block penetrate to skills, like on cat skills instead of a almost useless 40% bonus.
There are multitude layers of the problem. It’s not that simple.
Right now I’m not sure if block is linear or not. Crit is not linear since it get increasingly harder to maintain at higher level. Not sure if it is the same with block.
Full CON + block should give that much block, sure, but that much block should not completely shut down all physical builds. Even if full CON mage deal crap damage, as long as they shut down all physical damage, they will triumph over all physical build, it just takes a bit longer.
This create a small paradox:
- If physical classes can bypass block, then it is pointless to have block in the first place
- If physical classes cannot bypass block, then they are dead classes
The main issue is that block is so potent, it outright stop the attack and its effect, not reducing just damage.
So unless they change block mechanic, IMC will go on a wild goose chase with this block and counter block thingy.
hm, mm. the problem is just you can’t get the penetration up as high, with gloves and gems it still wouldn’t be enough. perhaps they assume if all mages trend to full con, swordies should start dumping into spirit for the penetration and cc resisit. not likely too happen of course.
Swordsmen already have issues in stat allocation (STR/CON/DEX), putting more points into SPR just to counter block sounds counter-productive compared to the current overlords.
Block being on CON feels like the big issue here (and how easy it is for wizards to go full CON because they don’t need DEX at all), and at least moving that bonus elsewhere (like STR) or adding block pen on STR at the very least might make a difference. Or you know, give physical classes skills/attributes that lets them ignore block for a few seconds if IMC deems the stat system is fair when a lot of classes are already maxing CON.
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