Tree of Savior

[Re:Build] Kabbalist feedback


#1

Since Re:build just went live today on kTest, I’ve watched the stream of Nekorin and must say:

I’m shocked what the developers have done to Kabbalist.

Nothing on the Class was fixed/improved but everything either ignored or nerfed to the ground.

Let’s start with the skill roster:

As Kabbalist, we have the following skills now:

unlocking at Class level 1:
Revenged Sevenfold
Ein Sof
Merkabah
Gematria
Clone

unlocking at Class level 15:
Notarikon
Nahash

unlocking at Class level 30:
Gevura
Tree of Sephiroth

We lose the following skills:
Double Chance

We lose the following attributes:
Revenged Sevenfold: Duration
Ein Sof: Maintain Time [no longer a magic circle]
Ein Sof: SP Recovery
Merkabah: Divine Protection [now a basic skill effect]
Enhanced Defense Formation: Saved Time
Double Chance: Minimal Correction [skill removed]
Ein Sof: Double Magic Circle [no longer a magic circle]

attribute changes:
Ein Sof: Stacked Healing [recovery bonus reduced to 50%]

new attributes:
Ein Sof:enhance [increases HP increase to a maximum of 45% at level 100 (costs 103.462 attribute points)]

Now to the skill changes:

Revenged Sevenfold:
CD time reduced to 25 seconds.
Now has a hidden interaction with a Miko/Kannushi skill (I think it was the new Omikuji) that increases the damage dealt.

Ein Sof:
HP increase is fixed at 30% for every level, with the skill duration of 20+skillevel * 4 seconds(so max duration is 80 seconds).
Has an enhance attribute that increases the maximum HP gain by up to 50% (so max +45% HP).
Is now on target-cast instead of a magic circle(it works like the new Heal and Seed Bomb).

Merkabah:
Now includes the Divine Protection attribute effect in the basic skill.

Clone:
CD time was increased to 120 seconds. The maximum level was reduced to 5 and the Clone duration was increased to (calculated result x2) + 3 seconds per skill level.

Nahash:
Skill duration increased to 10 seconds.
CD time increased to 30 seconds.
Now ticks once every 0.5 seconds instead of 0.3 seconds.

Tree of Sephiroth:
Effect duration increased to 10+skillevel seconds. Heal effect still 1% HP per skill level.
Recovery tick time was increased to 0,5 seconds.
The enhancement attribute now has 100 levels and offers a 50% recovery boost, so at max enhancement level and skilllevel 5, you will recover (skill level * 1) * 1,5 = 7,5% max HP per tick.

To leave a first impression feedback:

Ein Sof:
The changes completely and utterly destroyed the skill.
Since the CD time is 60 seconds and the Hp gain no longer scales with the skilllevel, there is no incentive to level the skill over level 10.

What I’d propose to change:

Set the base skill duration at 300 seconds or add an attribute that increases the buff duration when cast on the Kabbalist himself(maybe as an additional effect of Kabbalah Garments).
There is no need to keep a buff short-lived than can easily have 100% uptime.

Change the HP increase to scale with the skill level. 4% max HP increase per skill level. Keep the enhancement attribute as is.
That way, a level 10 Ein Sof would add 40% + 20% = 60% HP at max enhancement attribute level, and a max level Ein Sof would add 60% +30% = 90% max HP at max enhancement attribute level.

You still have a relatively low HP gain, but you no longer punish people for investing more than 10 skill points into Ein Sof.

Revenged Sevenfold:
A shorter CD is exactly what the skill needed to make it more useful ingame.

Well done reworking nothing to change here.

Merkabah:

The skill is still as clunky as ever. I still see the Divine Protection effect going on and off randomly, as long as that is not fixed, the skill is still meh.

What I’d propose to change:

boost the skill modifier a little

Nahash:

Edit2:
Nahash needs to either have a higher base modifier or return to its 0.3 seconds per tick, otherwise the damage is completely negligible for the high CD time.

Clone:

With the changes to Clone, I really wonder if the same developers that made these changes actually played the Class before the change. The main problem of Clone was not the short-lived Clone but the high CD time.
Since the CD time was increased a lot, I see no improvement in the skill other than adding more time for full support builds to kill the monster. That problem wouldn’t exist if Nahash or Merkabah did deal more damage.

What I’d propose to change:
Reduce the CD time of the skill, it’s only useful to clear daily quests faster and to farm items.
A CD time of 45, 60 or 70 seconds is already long enough for players who actively play the game to wait for a skill to come out of CD.

Tree of Sephiroth:
At first glance, it looks as if this skill has been improved, but if we do the math, the skill at level 5 has the exact same values as the skill prior to Re:build update with Divine Might at level 6.

Let’s take a look.

Currently, Tree of Sephiroth lasts 10 seconds and recovers HP every 0,4 seconds.
That’s 25 ticks of recovery over 10 seconds. It recovers 1% HP per skilllevel, so at level 6 (including Divine Might) we have 6% HP per tick. The attribute adds +0,3% HP per tick and has 10 attribute levels (costs 8275 attribute points to max), so we get a maximum recovery of 6% +3% = 9% per tick.

9 * 25 = 225% Hp recovered over 10 seconds.

After Re:build, the skill now lasts for 10+1 * skill level seconds, so at level 5 it lasts 15 seconds.
It recovers HP every 0,5 seconds now, so that’s a maximum of 30 ticks of recovery at level 15.
Given the recovery amount is still 1 % of max HP per skill level, at level 5 we have 5% max HP recovery per tick.
The enhancement attribute now has 100 levels and adds +0,5% recovery per attribute level, so at max attribute level [costs 103.462 points] we have 7,5% max Hp recovery.

7,5 * 30 = 225% HP recovered over 15 seconds.

Sure, we now have more time for the overall recovery, but the cost for the enhancement attribute exploded (requires 12,5 times the amount of attribute points for the same effect).

Double Chance:

It’s not in the benefit of Class identity to remove skills that actually are part of the Class identity.
All skills that are working on the base of Gematria and Notarikon are the skills that build up the core identity of the Class Kabbalist in Tree of Savior.
The developers actively reduced the amount of skills that can be used in conjunction with this skill with each larger update/rework, first we had Reduce Level vanish into Nirvana and now Double Chance went “poof”,too.

What I’d propose to change:

Bring back Double Chance. Not only because it is part of the Kabbalist identity but also because it is the only skill that can create build diversity.

After reducing the number of skills and skill levels, the developers surely must have noticed that Kabbalist, at the current setting, can max every skill except Revenged Sevenfold[level 3] and Ein Sof[level 10], because Ein Sof only requires level 10 for full uptime.
Since the HP per level-scaling is gone, there is no reason to invest more points into this skill if I can get another skill at max level, e.g. Clone/Gevura/Tree of Sephiroth instead.

This leads to the vast majority of Kabbalist builds being 100% identical.

If we had Double Chance with the previous scaling, there is a good chance that the builds would differentiate between more support-,attack- or debuff focus.

Thank you for taking the time reading this critical feedback and thank you for trying to improve the gameplay of Tree of Savior.


KToS General Thread v4.0
#2

This applies to every class, in the game, almost all the stuff that made them fun is being removed for no reason, added lots of evasion, block and crit buffs in place of actually good stuff.

I’d be shocked with IMC and disgusted with the community (especially in Korea) if this made it to NA as is. This should be game killing.


#3

Please don’t go by what you’re seeing in one or two videos from people who, in many cases, don’t even play the current class.

Many skills were simply merged with other skills… it’s very important to wait til we get a full list of the details before jumping to conclusions.

If double chance was removed, good. It’s completely redundant with Gevura as far as functionality goes. Number skills are still very clunky to use and yeah, I understand it is part of kabbalist identity, but it’s more important to me that the class plays well than muh lore.


#4

I used Ein Sof for SP heal party as it was always the thing people drain fastest even tanks need sp, but now it its gone am sad :frowning:

then again the most important part of kabba is the costume :smile: as long as they don’t screw that up am still going kabba :blush:


#5

I actually used it quite often, it’s a really cool skill and works very fine with other skills.
Every Cleric e.g. got now the chance to level Smite, which is very strong in combination with Double Chance.
Inquisitor also offers a huge power boost with God Smash + Double Chance, and as long as Oracle doesn’t have its Twist of Fate removed, we have another big contestant for useful skill synergy with Double Chance.

Yes, it required some preparation and skill to use efficiently, but it worked just fine. There was no reason to remove it unless the developers wanted to prevent a certain skill combo with Double Chance.

That’s why it seems strange to remove it, if we’re looking at the amount of skills and skillpoints which point at 1-2 build variants possible as Kabbalist now.


#6

Not in a party–and sure I’ve gotten a few really nice hits with it where I managed to get it off at just the right time for someone’s biggest damage cap nuke, but how often does that really happen? And with such a long CD?

I’m not saying it wasn’t usable, I’m saying it was clunky. And I agree broadly–having only 1 skill path in a class is really boring and uninspired. But we’re in the first ktest iteration, there are so many unknowns right now. Don’t be discouraged, and try as hard as you can to not frame it in what exists in Tree right now. So much is changing that a lot of the skill merges and removals will probably make a lot more sense in the grander scheme of things.


#7

Sweetie, Ein Sof and Tree of Sephiroth got gutted and you’re crying about double chance?


#8

How did either of those skills get gutted, in your opinion, when all PVE content is trivialized beyond recognition because of what both of those skills do?

(There are other skills that are just as bad, I am curious as to your feelings on these two in particular though)


#9

Please take into consideration that the monsters in the rebuild patch were weaken/nerfed that must be the reason why ein sof was nerfed too with less increase on the players HP.

Sp recovery was removed since all the skills of all classes have smaller sp costs now whichever class tree you are using.

Stacked healing was also removed because of the weaken mobs and higher hp of characters since stat allocation is now automatic and will prolly allocate some to the players’ CON automatically.

So far I just wanna see how kabba will go after the big patch. Can’t wait.


#10

The point I criticized is not the decrease in HP but the fact that the skill still has its cancerous property (short-lived buff) and that the skill effect no longer increases with skill level but only the buff duration.

It’s a bad change because it actively nullifies any incentive to level the skill beyond level 10 (or level 9 if you prefer to use the skill gem) since it only increases the time the buff is on the target.

Given that base camp now no longer improves buff duration, there is no point in wasting 5 more points just for 20 more seconds of 30%/45% more HP if you can just cast the buff again.

Sure, you need to heal up again, but with a decent amount of Healing & with the help of the Ein Sof:Stacked Healing attribute, you can easily recover that amount in one OH of Heal (now got only 10 seconds CD and 2 OH).
So, regarding that aspect, the design of Ein Sof in Re:build is just flawed.

If they wanted to have an incentive to level the skill nonetheless, they could’ve e.g. increase the buff duration to 50 + 30 * skilll-level seconds.
That way, you’d at least have +150 seconds skill duration if you invest 5 more skill points.

You can already see it in the streams/videos from Ktest. It’s less everything, more clunky and very limited utility aside of Healing (which is not the identity of Kabbalist).


#11

I’m ok with the current KTest Kabbalist, though I wish they fixed the merkabah divine protection bug.

Edit: Maybe I should add my point of view instead of being a simple “I like it comment”, right?

As a Support, I look for ways to assist players outside my party too and Kabba is a great way for it. Merkabah increase the damage of everyone inside its area a little, even outside the party, and Tree of Sephiroth is a really good healing spell that heal players outside the party too. Gevurah got a really good boost which leaves it at the same state before Re:Build thanks to damage decrease. Clone got a really good buff too which might help non-dps kabbas. Ein sof was, in my opinion, too strong. I could easily tank 10 people alone thanks to it and revive. Now it is rather important to pick who you give Ein sof since it’s a single target buff. I more than welcome those changes. Being a support at current state is kinda too easy and passive with heal tiles and such. I’m happy with Re:Build and KTest Kabba.


#12

I’m still obssessed with the removal of ein sof’s SP recovery lol XD

Ok, so maybe mobs got weaker and SP cost got reduced, I still don’t think it’s necessary to remove SP recovery. Just my opinion, whenever someone mention kabbalist, I think of SP recovery. To me, it is like a signature ability for kabbalist.


#13

While it’s true that SP cost got reduced, so is SP regen. With the new change, Only Wiz and Cleric got bonus SP regen while other classes would still run out of SP at some point (SR, Zealot, and a number of classes that drains SP). This doesn’t justify removal of SP recovery.


#14

I havent read any details about sp regen getting lower. But I would not rely on regen, rather I will rely more on SP pots if that is the case.

Well originally Ein sof has no SP recovery in the past as far as I can remember. The original purpose of ein sof was for HP increase not sp recovery.

Let say they put back the sp recovery att. The current 30% hp increase in ein sof will now be cut in half to 15% and that is not good.

Im not gonna lie, I do love the SP recovery attribute but i think we became too reliant to it that it overshadowed the original purpose of Ein Sof (HP increase)

Guess it should be just HP increase or just SP recovery.


#15

If you read the stat change in Part 2, SP regen has been removed from all kind of stat/level scaling. It is now a fixed 3% max SP on all classes.

Wiz and Cleric get 20% more due to Class stat specialisation (from Part 1). However, the same chart from part 1 shows that Swordie and Scout received 40% less max SP, Archer 30%, Cleric 20%. So, in reality, you get much less SP than you think. If your class have %maxSP drain skill (Zealot), you don’t get affect as much because, but flat SP Drain (Limacon) will suffer more than you think.

This is why I said SP cost got reduced and so is SP regen.