Questions about Underused Classes

Somito · February 14, 2019, 8:08am

So I decided to get around to trying out some of the less widely-used classes in the Archer tree. That being said, there hasn’t been much talk on them so it’s kinda hard to find info. If anyone knows the answers (or where to find them) to some or all of these questions it’d be super appreciated.

Cannoneer
-Siege Burst:

Question:
Raising the level increases the skill factor(SF) and the charge time. Is the increase in charge time beneficial, or is the charge meter only to determine the level of skill used?

Answer:

Carrossel:

You need to fully charge it to use it, no matter what level the skill is. So the time increase is a “balance” choice, maybe.

Question:
Does the Siege Burst: Increased Range attribute increase the range of the blast, or the range at which you can attack?

Answer:

Carrossel:

It increases the range you can attack. I haven’t noticed any difference in the blast (it would be awesome). But the range goes as shown:

Pictures

Without attribute :

With attribute :

-Sweeping Cannon:

Question:
It mentions that you can assemble the cannon with your turret. Does that mean it’s an installation?

Answer:

Carrossel:

I think it is just an animation.

Hunter
Video of Growling and Howling in action (thanks @tenjyo.no.gouka!)

Question:
Bonus stats and pet food costs aside, are all companions equal, or are some better than others? Searching around, there were several old threads that mentioned different HP scaling between companions, as well as differences in armor slots. Dunno if this is applicable (or matters) after re:Build.

Answer (WIP):
There’s definitely differences between companions. Companions have different armor and weapon slots: certain pets like the Winter Penguin and Goro have 2 slots for both weapons and armor (4 slots in total) while others like the Armadillo only have 1 slot for each (2 slots in total). Reportedly, some companions like the Pig had no slots. Additonally, companion HP varies depending on the type of pet as well: a level 368 Winter Penguin has 554k HP, while a level 378 Armadillo only has 59k. Another thing to note is that companion HP scales with the character’s level. The same Winter Penguin had 20k HP with a level 74 character but 554k HP with a level 390 character. In short, companions from the TP shop are probably better than companions obtained in-game.

-Coursing and Retrieve:

Question:
How do these interact with boss monsters? The immobilization effects won’t work but do they deal their continuous damage?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Testing on a card album shows Coursing does do the damage even if it doesn’t immobilize.

Addendum: Both Coursing and Growling apply their damage to Challenge Mode bosses, but without the CC effects. They also cancel each other out.

Question:
How do these interact with Growling and Hounding? Do they nullify, oppose, or are disabled while using both or either of these skills?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Coursing doesn’t break Growling. It uses the move and goes right back to Growling.

-Growling and Hounding:

Question:
Can you use both of these skills at the same time? (i.e., do they cancel each other out?)

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

I was able to break the pet AI once using Hounding followed by Growling. When I tried running away to break Growling the pet would teleport to me and continue to Growl. I would chalk this up to the pet AI being bad in general over their interaction as I wasn’t able to replicate it the next time I tried. Otherwise, they both work together as far as I can tell, as I wasn’t able to test the pet actually finding hidden enemies.

Any pet combat action (Rush Dog, Coursing) seem to cancel the Hounding buff on the pet, getting rid of the AI change. The loot chance is a buff on you and doesn’t go away.

-Howling, Growling, and Hounding:

In case you wondered about Growling and Howling:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

You can use the two together. Howling will interrupt Growling long enough to go off, but the pet will go right back to Growling

And Howling and Hounding:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Howling and Hounding work fine together.

Quarrel Shooter
Video of Quarrel Shooter skills in action (thanks @tenjyo.no.gouka!)

-Deploy Pavise:

Question:
Is the blocking effect still like pre-re:Build? (pre-re:Build the shield would block/absorb attacks as if it was its own entity rather than an actual shield you were using to protect yourself, but after re:Build does it somehow absorb attacks taken by you as long as you’re near or behind it?).

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Pavise works like pre-re:Build in terms of how it blocks.

Question:
Deploy Pavise: Aiming Sight grants you knockback/knockdown immunity as a buff given when you place the shield, or as a buff emitted by the shield?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

The trait is a buff gained when you get close enough to the pavise. You can see in the video that you have to be fairly close, but it doesn’t matter if you are behind it or not.

-Rapid Fire:

Question:
Similar to my Siege Burst question, what does the charge meter actually do? Increase number of hits, skill level, or something else?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Charging appears to increase the maximum number of hits (see video).

-Kneeling Shot:

Question:
Can you use skills while in Kneeling Shot or is it like pre-re:Build where only certain skills where allowed while kneeling?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

Kneeling Shot appears to have the same skill limitations as per-re:Build. You can see in the video that I can use nothing when in Kneeling. In addition, I remember being able to jump out of Kneeling and that appears to no longer be the case.

Question:
How does this skill interact with other skill states such as Sniper’s Serenity and Bazooka? Pre-re:build you could use Sniper’s Serenity while kneeling, is this still the case or do you have to Bazooka/Sniper’s Serenity before kneeling?

-Block and Shoot:

Question:
A thread mentioned that it actually gives a 3 second buff rather than buffing one attack, is this still the case?

Answer:

tenjyo.no.gouka:

This appears to be the case, but the timer does not start until the next attack after the block. You can see me run around in circles with the second buff icon until I hit the monster.

Also, if you don’t know the answers to these questions and would like to know too, check back on this thread! I’ll try to update this somehow as soon as I can when/if I find the answers.

_DrRM_ · February 12, 2019, 8:07am

I would’t consider Quarrel shot rare it is a good class as start up of builds

as for Hunter, not all pets are equal some have bonus but I don’t know if the mater or were changed lately…

that been said, what kills hunter is the awful AI on pets…

Somito · February 12, 2019, 8:41am

It seems like a good class (but with little synergy to the other classes apart from maybe Cannoneer) but I haven’t seen much of it in-game, and it’s surprisingly not even in the top 100 in the classbuild ranking, while Cannoneer and Hunter at least occupy 3 and 1 spots respectively.

Interesting! I know certain pets give bonus stats, but as mentioned I also read some like Goro and Rocksodon (and others) had 2 weapon slots and 2 armor slots, whereas Adventure Journal ranking pets like the Armadillo and Dodo only had 1 each. I’m not sure if this is still true after re:Build though, hence the question. Also I’m not sure if the increase in pet HP makes the armor slots irrelevant.

I’ve heard this. Mainly I plan to use my character strictly for fun, questing, and soloing so at least others won’t suffer if/when I have pet AI issues. I really just want to try the Archer classes I didn’t test before.

_DrRM_ · February 12, 2019, 8:48am

If you got a pet I say go for it, nothing to lose and who know maybe you manage to make a diamond

tenjyo.no.gouka · February 12, 2019, 6:19pm

Hunter
-Coursing and Retrieve:

How do these interact with boss monsters? The immobilization effects won’t work but do they deal their continuous damage?

Testing on a card album shows Coursing does do the damage even if it doesn’t immobilize.

How do these interact with Growling and Hounding? Do they nullify, oppose, or are disabled while using both or either of these skills?

Coursing doesn’t break Growling. It uses the move and goes right back to Growling.

Growling and Hounding :

Can you use both of these skills at the same time? (i.e., do they cancel each other out?)

You can use the two together. Howling will interrupt Growling long enough to go off, but the pet will go right back to Growling.

Video

Carrossel · February 12, 2019, 7:04pm

Hello! I will try to answer your Cannoneer questions, if i’m wrong, please, someone feel free to correct me:

About Siege Burst: You need to fully charge it to use it, no matter what level the skill is. So the time increase is a “balance” choice, maybe.

About Sweeping Cannon: I don’t think so. I think it is just an animation.

The reason I think it is an animation is that your character is unable to move while you’re using the skill. I don’t recall any installation being that way. And so the cannon is on the ground for about 2~3 seconds, which is too little of a time to benefit it being an install.

tenjyo.no.gouka · February 12, 2019, 9:10pm

Quarrel Shooter
-Deploy Pavise:

Is the blocking effect still like pre-re:Build? (pre-re:Build the shield would block/absorb attacks as if it was its own entity rather than an actual shield you were using to protect yourself, but after re:Build does it somehow absorb attacks taken by you as long as you’re near or behind it?).
Deploy Pavise: Aiming Sight grants you knockback/knockdown immunity as a buff given when you place the shield, or as a buff emitted by the shield?

Pavise works like pre-re:Build in terms of how it blocks. The trait is a buff gained when you get close enough to the pavise. You can see in the video that you have to be fairly close, but it doesn’t matter if you are behind it or not.

-Rapid Fire:

Similar to my Siege Burst question, what does the charge meter actually do? Increase number of hits, skill level, or something else?

Charging appears to increase the maximum number of hits (see video).

-Kneeling Shot:

Can you use skills while in Kneeling Shot or is it like pre-re:Build where only certain skills where allowed while kneeling?
How does this skill interact with other skill states such as Sniper’s Serenity and Bazooka? Pre-re:build you could use Sniper’s Serenity while kneeling, is this still the case or do you have to Bazooka/Sniper’s Serenity before kneeling?

Kneeling Shot appears to have the same skill limitations as per-re:Build. You can see in the video that I can use nothing when in Kneeling. In addition, I remember being able to jump out of Kneeling and that appears to no longer be the case. Stance interaction I can’t test atm.

-Block and Shoot:

A thread mentioned that it actually gives a 3 second buff rather than buffing one attack, is this still the case?

This appears to be the case, but the timer does not start until the next attack after the block. You can see me run around in circles with the second buff icon until I hit the monster.

Video

I was pretty curious about this one myself, since I have a ton of leftover xbows from Hacka that I want to still use, so I was considering making some sort of QS with the character slot voucher we get from the event.

Somito · February 12, 2019, 9:55pm

Thanks a bunch to @tenjyo.no.gouka and @Carrossel! I’ve gone and updated the original posts with your answers.

I still need to watch the videos too but I went ahead and added them too for easier browsing.

@tenjyo.no.gouka , yeah Quarrel Shooter seems to be a really promising option especially considering you can have shield+xbow on main slot and your actual weapon on swap slot. Hopefully one of the new classes will synergize well with it.

Somito · February 12, 2019, 10:07pm

@tenjyo.no.gouka just watched the videos and realized there was a misunderstanding with Growling lol. I was asking about Hounding (the loot buff). I’ll be leaving your answer up regardless just in case though!

tenjyo.no.gouka · February 12, 2019, 10:27pm

@Somito
It’s not a big deal for me to retest with Hounding if you’d like, to add to the OP. Just let me know which ones you want me to do with it instead of Growling. I just might not get to it today.

shield+xbow on main slot and your actual weapon on swap slot

Yeah, my issue with this is I already have a Mergen and Musketeer, and dislike Cannoneer. I was thinking something more along the lines of QS-Wugu-X.

Somito · February 13, 2019, 12:46am

If it’s not too much of a bother then yes please! It’s just that both Hounding and Growling modify the pet AI, so I’m not sure if they’d overwrite each other (or maybe you can activate Hounding first to get the loot buff, then Growling)

If not then I should be able to get around to testing it by the end of the week as my Cannoneer levels up so don’t worry.

I’ve heard of QS-Falconer-Ranger/Fletcher, and it seems like an ok AoE build. From my pre-re:Build experiemce it didn’t really add much to Musketeer, and the shield mechanic would force you out of Sniper’s Serenity. Honestly, QS seems like it synergizes best with Cannoneer since it has an attribute for Kneeling Shot but it’d render you even more immobile. Maybe an AA build combining Bazooka/Sniper’s and Kneeling Shot would work somehow.

tenjyo.no.gouka · February 13, 2019, 7:39am

I was able to break the pet AI once using Hounding followed by Growling. When I tried running away to break Growling the pet would teleport to me and continue to Growl. I would chalk this up to the pet AI being bad in general over their interaction as I wasn’t able to replicate it the next time I tried. Otherwise, they both work together as far as I can tell, as I wasn’t able to test the pet actually finding hidden enemies.

Any pet combat action (Rush Dog, Coursing) seem to cancel the Hounding buff on the pet, getting rid of the AI change. The loot chance is a buff on you and doesn’t go away. Howling and Hounding work fine together.

Cannoneer for sure has the most synergy but it’s not really my thing. I also am loathe to “double up” on jobs by having them in more than one char, so for instance I’m looking to avoid Falconer since my Mergen has one. I am curious if Sapper is any good outside of Broom Trap now, so maybe QS-Wugu-Sapper or QS-Wugu-Fletcher is what I’ll settle on.

Somito · February 13, 2019, 10:41am

Thanks again! It’s great that the looting buff remains at least, although a bit weird that actions cancel Hounding on the pet when they don’t with Growling.

I won’t be able to add that info to the op until tomorrow (later today?) when I have access to my computer again but I’ll try to add it as soon as possible once I do.

I’ve heard good things about Sapper. Broom Trap is still good, Spike Shooter is really strong after re:Build apparently, and everything except Claymore is decent or above supposedly.

Somito · February 13, 2019, 9:34pm

Updated the post with the new info!

There’s only 3 questions unanswered know I think. I should be able to answer the Cannoneer and Hunter questions by asking around and testing on my own, and I’ll probably have those answered by the end of today.

Carrossel · February 14, 2019, 4:02am

It increases the range you can attack. I haven’t noticed any difference in the blast (it would be awesome). But the range goes as shown:
Without attribute:

With attribute:

Somito · February 14, 2019, 8:14am

@Carrossel thanks again! This is what I found too, and it didn’t seem to increase the blast radius either.

I was able to ask around about companions, and some are definitely better than others (in terms of HP and armor slots at least). I want to get info on the Penguin/Battlebird, Rocksodon, and Lesser Panda pets before I can conclusively say TP pets are better than in-game ones.