Tree of Savior Forum

Quarrelmarker Patch Nerf or Buff?

Hello,

I think many people will welcome the Running Shot change because it will make it much easier to play but I have my doubts.

I try to calculate the difference in overall damage and after that, I will have some more thoughts of these changes.

lvl 5 Running Shot:
Before: 23/35 * 1.5 * 2 = 1,97
After: 1.5 + 1 = 2.5

Why 1? They made an example in the patch notes that showed that 300% will get changed to 200% because of addition. So Old - 1 = new. So this seems like a good buff overall. (+27%)

Now let’s assume Masinios + Gem + Divine Might.

lvl 10 Running Shot:
Before: 33/35 * 1.5 * 3.5 = 4,95
After: 1.5 + 2.5 = 4,0

For a well-geared Quarrelmarker, this is an extreme nerf (-19%).

But even these two figures seem better than they are. A Quarremarker with Falconer will use some skills too. While using them you will not auto-attack.

At the moment you would use your skills when Running Shot is NOT up. After the Patch for a lvl5 Running Shot user, this is still a buff even if you do not get all of the 27% because of using skills while the new Running Shot is up.

But for a lvl10 Running Shot user the patch is even more of a nightmare. Not only you lose damage overall, you also can’t make up for it in the downtime of Running Shot because there is no downtime anymore.

Have a nice time

Moonarrow

PS: Anyone got a korean site for the real values of every Running Shot level?

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

How about… you just do it?

Try this.
https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skills/30207

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You don’t seem to realize the point there.

If you calculate an advantage in overall dps you have to consider downtimes.

At the moment: 21 seconds shooting with Buff 14 seconds using skills and stuff. so 100% auto dps while having the buff. The overall dps increases for every skill you use.

After the Patch: full duration. 27% dmg increase overall. But it will not be 27% more dmg because you lose some auto dps while using skills. So your actual gain will be lower than 27%.

Even the lvl 10 Running Shot user was able to use at least 1 skill before he rebuffed himself. After the patch he does not only lose 19% dmg because he uses skills in the buff uptime he loses even more.

Thank you very much :slight_smile:

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Its a nerf for braindead AA player who just use running shot all day all night and forget that they have much more dmg on other skills.

Do you even realize that it is especially a nerf to players using skills clever in the downtime of Running Shot?

You even claim that a decrease of AA dmg will not affect players using skills? Why would you go for QS3 at all if you do not use AA as well? Don’t know what to say here anymore. This is way beyond stupid.

To get my attention on any of your posts in the future you should at least have any reasonable and thought through feedback or I will ignore it entirely.

I sincerely ask you to leave my threads alone in the future. Thank you.

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This was the sentence which showed me what your gameplay is.
It all wrong. You will use running shot “when skills are on CD”.

And exact sentence is the reason i hate most if not all running shot users.
Like hell using running will get you high dps.
Stop testing your damage on 1.3m hp bosses and go to some “real boss” and try competing with skill based archer who has similar patk and decent attributes.

Edit: Forget about skill users. Just compare yourself vs an sr3. Can you beat a limacon spamming sr3 with running shot? Hell no.

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This is true right here.

You do not use Running Shot then cast skills during its downtime. You cast skills and use Running Shot during your skill downtime.

Remember that Running Shot’s 10% attack speed bonus and full movement speed while shooting works with similar based skills. This means faster skill casts, leading to your skills going on cooldown quicker increasing overall dps. Not to mention you can keep up the auto attack damage, while moving into a favorable position to cast skills. Lets not forget that QS3 also allows for your devastating skill called Caltrops to dish out stupid % amounts of damage in a single skill cast.

The new Running Shot is an overall buff compared to its current incarnation.

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I thought a while about your given information.

Assuming you use running shot when everything else is on cooldown the nerf will even be harder than for full braindead AA users. I made some research and now have to correct some of my calculations but to take your concept into account I need a completely different approach.

But first the corrected formulas for braindead AA:

lvl 5 Running Shot:
Before: 23/35 * 1.5 * 3 = 2,957
After: 1.5 + 2 = 3.5
+18%

lvl 10 Running Shot:
Before: 33/35 * 1.5 * 4.5 = 6,36
After: 1.5 + 2.5 = 5
-21%

Now these both are averaged out AutoDPS charts.

If you consider using Running Shot only when everything else is on cooldown it will become worse. Why? Because then you will only gain from the duration increase so 10% faster casting and easier repositioning while getting a decrease in AA DPS while using it (@lvl5 4,5 to 3,5 = -22% AA dmg).

A lvl10 Running Shot user will lose 26% of his AA dmg because of the new formula and duration when priority is set on skills.

So the braindead AA user will get hurt less than the “skilled” player.

Sure you could argue that a lvl5 running shot user will rather have the longer duration for easier repositioning and faster skill casts instead of 22% AA DPS but a lvl10 user already is near a permanent duration and from that point will lose 26% AA dmg with the patch. 26% AA DMG for a longer duration and no other benefit? Sure that is no nerfing at all!

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so…? what do you plan to do if it is a nerf? quit tos?

That’s not the point !! Come on you can do better than that.

If you have read my first post you would clearly see that I stated that “many people will welcome the Running Shot change”.

It’s quite funny to think that people (that play the spec) will welcome a nerf, isn’t it?

I tried to calculate if it is a nerf to let people know what will come for them. If it was only about me would I post it on the forum? If it would concern me that much I would directly contact the developer and tell him what I think about these changes. From my past, as a very experienced closed alpha/beta tester for many games, I know that if you come with reasoning they will hear you and maybe will make changes because they haven’t thought it all through.

For myself, this change doesn’t do a lot because I don’t like the Falconer build at all and just wait for the coming patch to reset her to a Cannoneer. I don’t care if it is stronger or weaker. A friend suggested me the QS3/Falc3/BM spec and while it is powerful I get PTSD playing it. Maybe this will change with the easier Hawk Handling but dunno I really like my W3/E3/WL3 the most.

I dont get this thread ?

I thought we all know already that stacking running shot with other AA buffs is a nerf in damage?
be it DGS, or Bazooka, since it’s written on the patch.

beside as a BM, you’ll rarely use AA, with mozabique 4 OH, RIP 2OH, BOD 2OH.
you AA just to clean the leftover, and collect mobs.

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I agree that yes, for a lvl 10 Running Shot player, this is a huge nerf only for AA, but that’s where it ends. Any character that uses only QS3 Running Shot AA is playing below sub optimal anyway, “braindead AA player who just use running shot all day all night”.

Are you just taking into account purely AA? Because you say overall damage several times. Is there a certain amount of time you are giving for DPS check comparisons? Or is it just purely the current duration to cooldown time? Also are you taking into account different levels of attack speed?

In Running Shots purest form, with nothing else to factor in, compared to its current state, duration being the same as our current version, Running Shot got nerfed. Totally agree.

2 Likes

As long as i dont have to cancel bazooka all the time to recast running sh it, im happy. I lose tons of DPS cancelling and recasting bazooka.

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My calculations go into several scenarios. Boss, Multitarget, Group.

But I only calculated for a QS3/Falc3/BM1

A BM2 will use more skills like Naght already stated. I admit that I didn’t take BM2 into account here. For that, I would have to make completely new calculations and I’m already certain that the nerf will not be huge there because the % of AA dmg in overall DMG should be way smaller.

I did check the Attack speeds solo and group buffed (Chrono + dex) on a full dex build.

I try to do a 2-3 minute time window. It’s a little tricky because sometimes a few seconds can make a huge difference when cooldowns get ready.

The thing is the proportion of AA dmg in a QS3/Falc3/BM1 is higher than someone would expect.

The main purpose of this thread is to show that a well-geared Character doesn’t really benefit from the patch. Ya, you get a 5-minute buff but that’s it. This is something that is not clear to be seen in the patch notes because “braindead AA players” will see that now they can spam AA all day to make up for the dmg lost because of a different formula. But a well-geared player will not benefit from the increased duration and only lose dmg.

I didn’t know it was already a well-known fact and how much it really is.

I will not disclose my full spreadsheet here. I just noticed that it will make quite a difference.

@Fenatte
I feel with you but the title was Quarrelmarker and not Quarrelcannoneer. I can imagine that it is very annoying to always switch the stance. If that makes up for the loss of AA dps. I don’t know.

Oh i thought it just said quarrel shooter, my bad. The bazooka stance cancel+recast is like 6 seconds by itself, so its a pretty huge pain.

Paying my respects to bullet memers though
:tired: 7

Like I said before, if you lack AoE in this game (meaning just relying on auto, single target AA) you will regret it

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I do more dmg with autos why i must use skills :stuck_out_tongue:

Gear yourself bruh. and get some attributes in skills. (I am not saying multishot can outperform running shot in anyways though).