I totally agree. There was no PVP in FFARR and then we got kind of a boring one and then the expansion made it more fun. I think releasing a game with at least a competitive guild system of some sort is a must, even if we don’t have wars from the beginning if it’s not competitive and gives you something to work towards it’s not worth it.
They could go all Fairy Tail on us and just make it a tournament with obstacles and fights along the way. That would be great!
Well they should make something like WoE because if they just make an Arena like GvG it will be rly lame imo.
Are you kidding? Open-world PvP is one of the best features ever devised for any MMO. It makes the game much more “alive” - if someone is farming on the same map as you and you don’t want them there, you can try to kill them to “boot them out”.
If they get mad at you, maybe they’ll come back. Maybe they bring friends. If so, you can get some of your own friends and fight back.
Maybe you find a party of people killing a boss you were trying to hunt down with your own party - you can surprise attack them while they’re killing it and try to take it for yourselves. Maybe they come back and try to counterkill you guys. It’s exciting.
But the best part of all comes around the endgame, when you’re all geared up, killed every boss, blah blah blah.
At that point, you’re bound to have a “hangout” where you just sit around and chat with friends - that’s where the real fun begins. Once a bunch of these “hangouts” exist, rivalries develop, turf wars start, all sorts of crazy **** goes down.
That’s where all the best memories are made, I tell you.
hmm about GvG, in some games I saw guilds which force members to double account during it, this kind of gameplay will be allow in ToS…? I hope no… 
Well IMO it’s more annoying than exciting. Some high leveled azzholes would always come to lower leveled training places and kill any low leveled players in sight. Of course there are some fun moments when you disguise as a newbie and kick their azz as well but meh, PK system mostly just brings unpleasant experience. 
uh… thats why i said its rude in the 1st place… 1st of all why do i need to boot/kick/kill them? its not that i hate them or anything… its because the difference with lvl and expirience… i can say that im weak and just want to farm mats then here comes a veteran ■■■■■■■ just trying to take me out… do you think its an even play/competition? try thinking dude…
and its not the best thing in MMO genneraly… its just the best thing for the kinds of people who just want to bully people >=(
Whether or not getting griefed on a map is enjoyable is highly subjective… For as much fun as you had, there are people that could have been so annoyed with the situation that they quit the game. It’s totally fine that you love open world PVP but insisting everyone should love it is weird…
You don’t “need” to kick them. I clearly said:
IF someone is farming AND you don’t want them there, you CAN attempt to boot them out by killing them - the entire structure of the sentence implies choice, which is precisely what my point was - you have the option to attempt to kill them.
As for it being “rude”:
1.) You’re being pretty rude yourself by telling me to “try thinking” when you didn’t even bother to apply reading comprehension to actually understand my post
2.) Even without open-world PvP, there’s going to be plenty of “rude” people who will do and say “rude” things to you. This is true of any community of people in any context. Whether you let it bother you or not is your own decision. Removing or precluding a game from having certain features on the basis that you consider them “rude” is childish and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how social interaction works.
Things like differences in level are easily remedied by instituting level ranges for open-world PvP (can’t kill people who are 30+ levels below you, etc).
Well, what if your levels are similar and a “veteran ■■■■■■■” comes to kill you? Simple: it’s part of the game. You respawn and go to another map, or do something else until the guy leaves, then resume what you were doing.
That “veteran ■■■■■■■” was himself a newbie at some point or another, and more than likely had the same thing happen to him.
As far as “even play/competition” goes, there’s no such thing. Again, let’s assume that open-world PvP isn’t a factor. I’m sitting in a low-level map farming or killing a boss, when suddenly some higher-level guy with way better gear shows up to take the kill(s). I tell them I’m “weak and just want to farm mats”, but they ignore me and just keep leveraging their advantage to take all the monster kills.
Is this “even play/competition”?
By your definition, no, it isn’t. Should high-level players then be banned from low-level maps? Or if we implement your methodology, should “farming mats” just be removed from the game altogether to encourage more “fair” play?
I don’t know about “generally” - (valid) generalizations are usually based on statistical data and evidence. This looks more like it’s just your opinion.
This is a baseless accusation. Some people simply find that kind of feature more fun, and believe it adds depth to a game.
Saying that the people who want this kind of feature in a game just want it so they can “bully” people is just an appeal to emotion.
I didn’t “insist” anyone should do anything. I presented my opinion and backed it up with my reasoning - this is called an argument
The ultimate purpose of an argument is to help people be able to “see things your way”. My post was no more “insistent” on “everyone” loving open-world PvP than the posts of those who are against it are “insistent on everyone loving no open-world PvP”.
lame? or you just want ToS to be RO?
You presented your opinion as fact. Opinion would be “I think…” or “To me…” or “In my opinion…” not “Are you kidding? Open-world PvP is one of the best features ever devised for any MMO.” and etc. Better luck next time…
Edit: Also, for future reference, an effective argument includes acknowledging opposing views and explaining why your side is the best choice. Which in this case would be a hard sell. Aside from ‘lul people that dont like it can just leave.’ Which is why most MMOs have separate PVP servers. Because many, many people really dislike being ganked.
thats being rude… PK is the thing that makes things worse. it gives u the authority to kill players who dosnt even want to pvp… just a simple farmer and killed on sight w/out a reason!.. their are other things the PKer can do… like map/spot sharing not necessarily harrasing the 1st person in the feild (bullies do this often) u want to farm on.
im not being rude to u… im suggesting to you that u think more of possibilities in the PK thing. u just want to compete right? ToS has arena… try comepeting ur chara build their. sure, even rude people exist on everything… but atleast i dont have to battle people out for just few materials… im not that stupid XD lol and either way… ill just lose =_="
u dont have much choice their… its either kill or be killed. the initiative is on the enemy, while i farm, he attacks, i die, hes happy, i suffer,i restarts on spawn,i try to farm again, then he attacks me …again. that is rude .being on a lvl that i can PK is even worse! lets say im lvl 50 then the PKer is lvl 200 (even with a 30 level difference, this dosent even the playing feild on PvP or much more, it cant be called PvP, its just plain PKing). well… if theirs a thing that lvl difference of 5 (below or above) they can only ingage in PK i guess their is no helping it… but a true PvPer dosnt attack people for no reason (people tends to troll =V)
level similarity varies… PKers are OP builds that a simple build cant out matched… my build is balanced and mainly PvE and farming oriented… PKers are OP eriented PvP gears that can easily one shot u on sight. (well not one shot mostly, but can kill u instantly). the reason why i dont want PvPs cause i dont want to compete… i just want to beat monsters and farm for ingame money…
why do even “veteran ■■■■■■■” want to release his pent up frustrations to me? did i do somthing to offend him to the point that he PKs me instead of just trying to PK the original PKer? thats just plain coward their… if he cant beat his enemy and tries to beat weaker player wont that be rude? @_@
^ the point is about PKing… in the example u gave… u can just leave the map u know? but the main thing their is u cant kill the high level player if its even open PK world (lvl 200 vs lvl 50 in PK and that sucks… u dont even have the chance to hit)… u can just stare their and die. and what i mean about even play/competition is exactlty what is says, an even level (lvl 200 vs lvl 200) play that is worthy of a competition, instead of low lvl soft player u can easily kill and feel nothing, no accomplishment whatsoever, just plain bully…
true… my opinion… but its the best for me in MMOs… ur is PK.
baseless accusation? more fun? realy? i dont find it fun. i find it horrible. its fun for rude PKers (not u but other people that mindlessly killing players they see on every map). mind u that i played in a MMO that the PvP map has quest in it(because of exp and item reward the reason i go their)… while i idlely sitting waiting for a mob respawn, some players attacked me while i ddnt even fight back. do u think this is not bullying? rude? taunting to somthing?
its not about emotion, its about expirience. some people tend to break fights for no reason at all and i dont want to interact with them. this game will not be open-PK and im happy for it. if u want it to be an in-depth game with PK system then go file a complaing to IMC… XD
This is why PVP and Non-PVP servers(channels) are a good idea (like WoW), some ppl like world PK some ppl don’t. I always went PVP realms in WoW, I probably wont in ToS since I will be playing it more as a quester/ explorer and not just racing through content to endgame.
It isn’t being rude. From the Oxford English Dictionary: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/rude
rude
Syllabification: rude
Pronunciation: /ro͞od
adjective
1 Offensively impolite or ill-mannered […]
Let’s apply reasoning. Suppose that you have a game (any game, doesn’t have to be this one) that features open-world PvP. This then means that open-world PvP is a design mechanism; it is a part of this hypothetical game. Therefore, by definition, killing other players (and being killed by other players) is a part of the game.
Going back once more to the example of the “■■■■■■■ veteran”: Suppose you are farming in a map as you posed earlier, and this veteran comes by and kills you. By doing this, the veteran in question isn’t being rude, he’s just playing the game.
That’s the point I’m trying to get at here: There is nothing offensive, impolite, or ill-mannered about doing something that was included in the game by design.
If the “■■■■■■■ veteran” in question killed you and then proceeded to verbally insult you or something to that effect, THAT would be rude. However, the act of killing you in a game where it is permissible to kill other players is not in itself rude.
As to this:
There doesn’t need to be a “reason” for anyone to kill anyone else in a game with open-world PvP. That’s the whole point of having open-world PvP.
Relegating PvP to the realm of 1 v 1 duels and constrained areas (“Battle Arenas”) carries a very high risk of introducing stagnation in the PvP scene. What happens if no one wants to duel? What if the Battle Arena is always empty? What if it’s full, but always full of the same exact people over and over? Is the battle arena scripted, with specific “scenarios” that are always repeated, like 1 v 1, 3 v 3 and 5 v 5?
This is exactly the scenario I referred to. A level difference range would ensure that a level 50 player could not be killed by a level 200 player. There already exist numerous games that implement this sort of mechanism.
Obviously the range wouldn’t be 50 levels (that was just an example). It’d be something like 5 or 10.
This is the only scenario for which I don’t have an answer. If you are a PvE oriented player with a PvE oriented build, it would probably prove difficult to kill a player with a PvP oriented build. Still, it’s never “impossible” for a PvE player to kill a PvP player, whether it be through ganging up on him (being a PvE player, you’re probably in a guild and have lots of friends/allies) or simply through skill. In a game like this with lots of classes and different skills with different uses, it’s especially likely.
Addressed by the level difference range idea. Open-world PvP can still be open-world PvP with a bit of regulation to ensure that it’s not just maxed out veterans killing newbies.
It wasn’t rude, bullying, or taunting. Like I said earlier, those players were just playing the game.
The biggest problem with your point of view is that you don’t seem to realize the fact that if a game has open-world PvP and you decide to play it, you are consciously recognizing and accepting the possibility that you will be randomly killed/will be able to randomly kill players.
In that sense, calling someone rude for PKing you in a game that features open-world PK is like putting a big sign that says “KICK ME” around your neck and then calling everyone who kicks you rude. What did you expect to happen?
That my statement constitutes my opinion is implicit simply based on the fact that it was offered as a response to another opinion:
Wherein the opinion in question is bolded for your convenience, since evidently you’re either unable or unwilling to use context to discern the underlying nature of a statement.
For your information, “I think…”, “To me…” and “In my opinion…” all have one thing in common: they’re all phrases that a 13 year old would use to open a persuasive essay.
Unless you had the world’s worst English teachers, you should’ve been taught in middle school that writing this way is very unnatural, very redundant, and above all, very juvenile.
“Better luck next time.”
see? thats why i say rude =V. i didnt intent to be repetitive but u cant see my point… like i said, if im farming, some one tries to PK me while i dont have the intention of fighting back (because its pointless), wont that be some sort of offensive? (if it aint rude then i dont what it is =_="). and in non PK world, this things can be avoided, i can be disturb while farming but at least i dont have to fight over simple things. dont u get it? i dont want field fights, u like them, so why dont u find a game that suits u? i found mine and thats ToS. XD… if u realy want ToS to be open PK, u can ask IMC to make it that way u want it too =V
1st of all, i wont play it if its open world PK games… why would i? i said i hate open world PKings/PvP. its ur preferences not mine. and yes, it is a part of the game (any game that has PvP elements) but it has proper place to do that, ex: pvp maps. ToS dosnt have to be that way, IMC decide it wouldnt be open PK world and i liked it.
yes hes playing the game, but does he have the right to attack me knowing im not doing anything to provoke him? its just show that he’s boasting his chara and while he kills my chara effortlessly, i have to suffer then? whats the deal with that? im just faming mats and now i have to suffer the consequences for being weak and under leveled? fights should be in held by 2 players decisions to engage, not one sided.
and my point is ToS dosnt have open PvP/PKing. and i called it impolite/offensive because i expirence it (back in the old Ro private servers and my current MMO that has a quest in PVP map.)
the act itself is rude! i told u that i dont have the intention of fighting back i just want to farm, dont u understand that? and he attacks me for no reason… is that not rude? well that is offensive. and yes, again and again, u might call it part of the game, but who gives him the authority to kill me while i farm mats? is he the owner of the map? did he design the game to kill every one on sight? is he a game god/governor or somthing? he has no right to attack me whatsoever and PK world gives u the authority to killsome, but does that mean u will kill everybody? for no reason at all? @_@ sheesh
well in that case i wont play that kind of game =V good thing ToS is not open PK world.
i wont participate in PvP arena unless they disregard gear and bonus stat and creat some atificial stats instead to ballance each players chara (during arena time). in regards to arena problems, its in IMCs hands… i dont have idea on how the mechanic works on 1vs1, 3vs3, etc.
i agree here. if it will be PK orented atleast make it a fair fight (fair in a sense u can fight back, not get one shotted XD). but honestly, i realy dont like PKing… =3=" so its just me
well… its like fighting a sword with a kitchen knife… think u can win? maybe… PvP oriented players have higher % of player damage delting (due to gear % given to player) and they can recieve less damage (due to armour gears that give % amount of defense ). in this scenario… the PvE (me) wont likely stand a chance let alone do damage to his PvP aponent (veteran asshole XD). well personaly i dont know how IMC will implement PVP oriented gears… but i hope it wont be OP @_@… and i dont like to call friend just because im the one bieng bullied. i call that act of cowards =V
agreed. ToS can be PK world with regulations implemented. but will majority like this idea? hmmm maybe XD
true but who gives him the right to disturb others? i just go ther to quest… its part of the game i guess, but realy, its just rude XD i even tell them peace… they dont seems to understand u_u"
that game is not open Pking… its just a map for PVPing… but why the hell did the devs puts quest on killing map? @__@ thats just insane… i hope ToS wont put somthing like that…
it is horribily annoying for me, for u not maybe XD… i guess we’ll just agree to disagree =V
You’re right. Continue arguing over opinions and backing up your stance with more opinions. Because opinions. There was actually no reason to even reply to rhidz’s post. Because that was obviously a very honest opinion. But you’re somehow really intent on pointing out how he’s wrong? Or should change his view point? Like I said…There’s a reason most MMOs have separate PVP servers. Cause either people love it or hate it. And the two types of people don’t mix well. And no amount of baseless evidence is going to convince someone that hates PK servers to think ‘oh you’re right it totally WAS fun to have my experience ruined by someone rude.’
Your overall attitude is why PVP servers are such toxic places. You’re overlooking the fact that not everyone is going to want to fight at all times. Or even that people may be partially forced into playing a PVP server to be with friends, while they themselves have no interest. And those friends won’t always be around for whatever PK showdowns you had such great fun with. MMOs need players. And having some entitled bratty attitude like ‘well if they don’t like it they can just leave! if they didn’t want me to kill them they shouldn’t have existed!’ is just sooo silly. And why would you gank someone that won’t even fight you back anyway? Like how much fun is that REALLY? Doesn’t your arm get tired from patting yourself on the back so much?
And…You should always use appropriate language to make sure your point is correctly understood. Even if it means lowering yourself to some supposed middle school English level. This is an international forum after all. But I mean…I guess if you want people just assuming half of everything you say based on context that’s cool? I used the most common examples of how to express that an idea is based on your own opinion, but I guess there are more complex ones? Though in your post’s case I guess something more along the lines of ‘some/many of people really enjoy …’? I realize you really wanted to put the guy in his place for having a different opinion than you, but it’s just too much and for no reason.
I guess my original point was more about honestly conveying your feelings on the subject and not trying to stand behind some false evidence that overall the most fun one can have in the game is PKing. When…For a lot of people it just equates to bullying and negative experiences from people trying to satisfy some weird need to dominate weaker players in a video game. But, uh, you be you…Oddly aggressive forum dude.
thank god you aren’t in charge rather have an awsome flushed out pve game and pvp as an after thought which looks like thats what it’s going to be bummer for you pvp lot but thems the breaks.
Well spoken words. Exactly my thoughts on this.
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