Tree of Savior Forum

PvP cata-goon build

that would be awesome too, a long with nerfing duration of hanging shot and levitation, ausrine, r7x, prophecy, and subzero shield among other stuff

or giving a lot of things a hit count limit

Just saw this, I think this is a variation of a lancer build I theorized awhile ago:

Sw -> high3 -> X3 -> lancer. Looks like itā€™s actually good now?

X3 could be anything, including cata3 which was the build I was thinking of beforeā€¦anywho.

Looks like we have to adapt. This patch really shakes up the status quo.

well that person definitely had hoplite 2 atleast, looks like hoplite3 from the duration on finestra in addition to the sw-high3-lancer u said.
How much dmg does spear lunge add to pierce attacks?

you can probably do it looking at the numbers, lol should be nice for killing bosses i guess xD

iā€™ll probably try sw2, hop2, cata3, lancer

5 sec is quite unreasonable, how did you even came up with this number?

Iron Hook is a targeted spell with almost 1 sec cast time, it also gets cancelled when user is displaced. The only advantage of hook is that itā€™s rank 10 debuff.

nah i think 5 sec is quite reasonable, youā€™re pretty much stunning someone and they canā€™t block or remove it, itā€™s ranged and it can get up to 3 targets at once. It has no hit count limit before going away and you can still cast other skills while using it.

lol the only advantage is rank10 debuff? no

Also you have to use a less vague term than displaced. Skills like Steed Charge, Long Stride, Mokuton no Jutsu, Balestra Fente, Frenzied Slash and Joust move you without cancelling the hook.

I wouldnā€™t even say ā€œIron Hook is a targeted spellā€, with the attribute on you just aim close to the thing you want to hook and it spreads to the enemies closest.

Just look at the first two rounds of this video.

Whats wrong with you guys?
You want to nerf the ONLY good swordy CC skill? xD

Want to nerf all broken skills xD not just swordy dude xD
I personally want pvp to be in a place where you always have a chance to win no matter the matchup. So I can flex LOL

This also includes spreading to any installation as well, including Dark Theurge. Smart players vs a corsair will slap up all of their installation, making iron hook very difficult to land.

Sure, it is strong in 2v2 but once you scale up from there it is fine.

yeah but only mobile installations would make a real difference imo like dark theurge or something like that. You could wait for the enemy to make the 1st move and get away from their installations.
Like in that video I linked, the corsair team lost the round being too hasty to hook.

Lol guess you could get unlucky with a cryo3wl and a qs on enemy or a sorcerer or something like that.

In a balanced system, locking anyone down for more thanā€¦ iā€™d say 8 sec is dumb.

Dunno if itā€™s just me but this whole combat rework just feels like a big F U to swordsman in general.

Itā€™s still not finished yet, they pretty much said they only changed some numbers on skills to fit the new damage formula but didnā€™t test individual builds yet. xD gotta wait

so kToS is just another name for test server then? xD

Iā€™d say to some extent they are watching ktos too. There are only so many ppl on the test server, and its not like they all have godly gear or care to share their concerns. They canā€™t test every build from the get go, things take time lol. A lot of things changed, and from what I heard the test server didnā€™t have enough players, especially for TBLā€¦ so canā€™t really balance PvP if not enough players to PvP.

My guess is they wanted the groundwork done and theyā€™ll add on other things as they go.

Thereā€™s a lot of work to be done when you think about it. Rank 9 ideas and balancing, current content balancing with the new system, items, monsters, synergies between skills, bugs and other stuff. Iā€™m sure they still need good ideas for PvP balancing but you still have people who think the current skills like Joint Penalty and Fireball are fineā€¦ so good luck to IMC as they figure it all out while sifting through ideas to separate the many useless from the good ones. LOL

That 8 sec doesnā€™t come without drawbacks, @Remiri already stated some of it. I doubt players that spawn installations will go away from them since they will lose the range of the installation itself. e.g. world tree, laima.

If you consider all skill cast and delay plus gap closing, you will be able to land 2-3 skills only not including your team mates of course.

Then again if you have first hand experience against corsairs you know how to counter hook with simple movement tricks, unless you have tard team mates where hook bounces on you as well.

everything comes with a drawback if you miss your intended target o.o obviously lol dahell are you talking about. you could miss impaler, raise, magnetic force etc.

Iā€™m talking about when you do land the skill, and in a PvP environment thatā€™s actually balanced. Hook as it is now wouldnā€™t have any place in a balanced PvP, itā€™s generally low risk with a very high reward.

To be honest if ALL hard CC was 3-5 sec max and couldnā€™t be chained for a brief time I wouldnā€™t mind. That way people will actually think more about what theyā€™re going to do and thereā€™d be some counter play. Of course there would have to be more changes in addition to the CC thing in order to make PvP more balanced.

A list of things that I think should be nerfed or changed in PvP for the balance, off the top of my head, that we have right now on iToS:

  1. Iron Hook :stuck_out_tongue:
  2. Raise
  3. Revenged Sevenfold
  4. Full Draw
  5. Stone Shot
  6. Broad Head
  7. Poisons
  8. Restrain
  9. Rush
  10. Coursing
  11. Shield C block
  12. Ausrine
  13. Missile Hole
  14. Magnetic Force
  15. Subzero Shield
  16. Long CC chaining
  17. Cloaking
  18. Marching Fire
  19. Hanging Shot
  20. Levitation
  21. Damage
  22. Stone Skin
  23. Revive
  24. Pear of Anguish
  25. Prophecy
  26. Death Sentence
  27. One Inch Punch
  28. Joint Penalty
  29. Installation durations
  30. Gohei
  31. Frost Pillar
  32. Sleep
  33. Stop
  34. Telepath
  35. Camoflage
  36. Telekinesis
  37. Impaler
  38. Dark Theurge

To draw some comparisons to RO, there were skills that you could use to endlessly CC people if they didnā€™t have the right equipment. For a time I would consider RO one of the more balanced pvp mmo games.

RO was fine because while it had those things, their counters were also easy to get and use since they were tied to priest abilities or other classes abilities.

For the sake of fun, lets go over your list.

  1. Iron Hook: Gohei removes it, friend or foe.
  2. Raise: Counter Spell, Capture, Fumigate, Reversi
  3. Revenged Sevenfold: Weapon Swap, just needs to be on players only and no installations.
  4. Full Draw: Pain Barrier
  5. Stone Shot: Pain Barrier
  6. Broad Head: Prophecy, Bloodletting
  7. Poisons: Antidotes
  8. Restrain: Prophecy, Bloodletting
  9. Rush: Just needs a damage nerf at the high gear level.
  10. Coursing: Agreed, it is getting nerfed.
  11. Shield C block: EHHH, it was fine. If anything nerf the guard value for holding it down for too long.
  12. Ausrine: Gohei
  13. Missile Hole: Agreed, needs to be nerfed.
  14. Magnetic Force: Range is a bit too big, otherwise fine.
  15. Subzero Shield: should be a slow, not a freeze. Prophecy
  16. Long CC chaining: I think this fits for the style of game. Bring counters.
  17. Cloaking: Arcane Energy with attribute can knock out of cloaking.
  18. Marching Fire: Missle Hole
  19. Hanging Shot: Do falconers still get this?
  20. Levitation: Just needs a duration nerf, slightly
  21. Damage: Being addressed, I hope.
  22. Stone Skin: Gohei, wonā€™t be block% after the patch
  23. Revive: 3 seconds of invulnerability is easy to work around. Gohei
  24. Pear of Anguish: Damage is getting nerfed
  25. Prophecy: Gohei, has a hit limit that wonā€™t last through 1 Rush unless it is rank 10+
  26. Death Sentence: Prophecy, Cure, Bloodletting, really high cooldown and have to be in melee range
  27. One Inch Punch: Prophecy, Cure, Bloodletting, tough to hit
  28. Joint Penalty: JP is fine imo, just fix bug with prophecy.
  29. Installation durations: Can be destroyed or toredown, they are fine
  30. Gohei: currently they only counter to a lot of things on this list, just needs more accessibility.
  31. Frost Pillar: Obnoxious skill, but just a bit buggy. Used to be fine.
  32. Sleep: Prophecy, Cure, Bloodletting, Gohei, etc etc
  33. Stop: Prophecy, Bloodletting, prevents damage
  34. Telepath: roots you in place, single target, Gohei
  35. Camoflage: Countered by any magic, reduces movement, canā€™t cloak.
  36. Telekinesis: Prophecy, Bloodletting
  37. Impaler: Prophecy, Bloodletting, Blockable, short range.
  38. Dark Theurge: One of the counters to iron hook!

Also why is Full Draw on your list but not Bash?

Well never played RO, wonā€™t play it either lol. Not even sure I could even if I wanted to.
Bash falls under the knockdown, for the full draw part i meant the root thing.

The current Joint Penalty isnā€™t fine. (thatā€™s why itā€™s getting nerfed, you didnā€™t mention that 1)

Good that you went through the list to show that not every class has a chance in each situation. No point in PvP if you donā€™t have some chance of winning. Most of the counters involve cleric classes.

From looking at a lot of your statements I can tell you favor GvG over any other PvP style. What is needed is total PvP balance, not just GvG.

Hopefully more of my list gets addressed in the future balance patches, so far so good xD
Everyone save a copy so we can tick them off as we get news of them. :wink:

JP is getting nerfed for PVE mostly, in PVP it is strong for burst damage and that wonā€™t be changed.

Join Penalty nerf is necessary imo to not make the class a must-have for EVERY Wizard build (same for Wizard C3 erased attribute, it was necessary in exchange of some good balance elsewhere).

I hope that we will have some things like that in Swordsman tree, iā€™m bored to be forced to play Corsair C1.

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This list of your so called unbalanced skill pretty much sums up your PvP experience, nothing more to say.

should have written TLDR: op everything, nerf everything.