A couple things to factor in
There are items new players can farm that higher level players need, repeatably. (this helps even out inflation between the levels)
You cant resell a token once you have bought it through the AH, so there wont be any hoarding/market playing. People selling a token are wanting to sell the token then and there, people buying a token are wanting to use the token.
Yeah, I’ve been very active for the 3 months thing, trying to change it, a big part of community complained too, so they changed it.
I just think there’s not enough of a backlash about THIS issue. There’s just handful of us that are really seeing the problem that’s going to arise in the long run, unless they change things.
Staff is also very inactive, it’s just the worst combo ever. Greed and no one caring about what the community is saying.
Thank you for points that definitely help alleviate quite a few worries!
So hoarding is not an issue.
I’m not sure that high levels buying items from low level players necessarily completely solves silver inflation. Those higher levels presumably have more opportunities to make money and would have more purchasing power in terms of obtaining tokens I’m guessing.
I still think the biggest issue is that some ~8% of the population will be buying ~40% of the tokens with very few people buying 2,3, or 4 tokens per month.
I just look at that $90+ per month and I think it’s not sustainable… who is going to want to continue paying $90+ a month for a game for months on end? And I feel like the number of people who will do so is likely an overestimate. We’ll see I guess…
EDIT: I’ve gone ahead and updated my starting post with this new information
EDIT 2: There’s also the looming question of what proportion of people who said they would buy 1 token a month will want to transition to buying tokens with in-game money. If that number is big and supply is not enough, there will still be issues… Those switching 1 token players will also probably have more buying power compared to F2P players.
Are there many examples of currency/market manipulation in kToS?
(I’m assuming that’s where you got the first two points from?)
Its really not possible, this games market is really restrictive. Things that dont lose potential being sold, are one time AH sells and then cant be resold (materials/monster drops mainly, which is what i was referring to since some repeatable dailies need these and higher levels are prone to just buying)
Also everything’s min and max price is fixed by some weird behind the scenes calculation, so your options even on what you will sell things for is restricted.
Not to mention you must wait two days (iir) before you can collect the money you made through selling something
This is second hand ktos info, i was very interested with the way the market worked and so asked some people i know who have been playing ktos
Is still an issue. Players that had headstart will have more buying power on the market, so they might as well hoard tokens while they are cheap to use them in dire times when inflation becomes unbearable.
Oh, so that min-max calculation applies even to tokens?
Many thanks for this deluge of information!
Yeah, i know that for sure. I was contemplating actually ‘playing the token market’, as ive enjoyed that kind of minigame in the past with games that have plex-like systems, but after looking into it i learned that its impossible, number of trades a token can have is restricted like mats, and their prices are restricted with the same mysterious limits, so even buying ones with silver when their price is down and selling my own gold-bought ones when the prices are up looks not to be worth the hassle of just buying my own token
My biggest worry was that rich players could buy all the tokens on market and resell them at a high price, or hold onto them effectively decreasing supply.
But it’s a good point that someone could play markets by buying many tokens up ahead of time if they see a price increase in the future.
EDIT: I’ve added it to the post and credited you 
Err… but if/when those $90+ 5+ token buyers find out about this system which will really reduce how much they’ll make and what they can sell for… won’t the token supply situation just get even worse?
EDIT: My biggest worry throughout this thread is that F2P players will not have a reasonable chance to obtain tokens, especially when competing against higher level and/or previously paying players who want to switch to free.
EDIT2: I still think a driving force for the problem is that western players are more sensitive to the $18 price point. If it were lower, I think we would see more people willing to buy tokens to sell.
Now for my input didn’t expect me to appear did you 
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Chronosanct you have done something great today you have become a ideal community member you have documented all your information in research information might not be 100% on key but it is there as you have stated this also this information does 2 things.
Shows the ones of the community who are unsure about things how things could be and what in tales for the future of the tokens in the system and how a little bit of research and facts can go a long way.
Shows gathered information to the moderator’s to pass on to the higher ups to give them more insight to the mind of there community members that we can be logical at times in response to there direction of the game rather then looking at us as mindless sheep that go where the higher ups point us with the development of the game.
If no one has thanked you then I will be the first to personally say keep up the good work.
Those who dont want to buy at $18 can alternate paying months with buying tokens for silver (effectively buying 0.5 tokens per month <- something poll didnt account for) halving his expenditures and making situation worse for F2P players at same time.
Sorry for the wall of text above against the flamer. I almost forgot what I originally wanted to say: thanks for doing the research on this and bringing up these issues.
With time, I hope the accuracy of this can be improved. It can be beneficial for those who have to pay too, especially if IMC can be convinced to lower token prices somehow.
How am I “passing” myself as a working person? I AM a working person and all I see are a bunch of people not wanting any sort of cash shop how do you think this game is going to survive? I would really love to hear your answer.
the number one reason is companies put out games and or products to get one thing MONEY. Money is what makes the world go round and lets face it F2P players need to get a grip on this sort of thing because it isnt going to change IMC is a very small company from what I have read and the only complaint i agree with is that i see are the threads about no EU servers(although there are just way too many threads made about the same topic)
So again tell me how is IMC going to get this game to survive with any type of income? cash shops with just costumes isnt going to cut it.
You can throw numbers at me all day about tokens and what not but the only number that matters to IMC is the number next to the money sign because without that they cannot keep making content.
so if they do take out the token system and leave the cash shop up people are still going to complain about the prices in the cash shop because they are going to be higher then what they are now.
also i like how you call me a flamer when what i wrote is actually true you guys want no edge at all for people supporting this game if there was nothing coming to the players spending money on this game i hardly think people would be throwing 50 dollars at this game for a “oh i support this game” there needs to be something coming back to give them a reason to spend money no one gives out money for free.
oh yeah this is all my opinion btw if i come off as a “flamer” i dont mean to i just dont see how a company can survive without a constant stream of money is all.
It seems I’ve hit the nail on the head here judging by how you’re just ranting and raving almost incoherently at this point. Not to mention repeating your ignorant ‘MONEY IS EVERYTHING’ argument.
Here’s the answer: no one here is saying to remove cash benefits entirely. People do understand that a company needs income to survive. If you had actually bothered to read the post and the discussions going on in the thread like a reasonable working person should, you would have seen that it isn’t just whining and pointless information. But you didn’t because you’re on this biased hate spree toward every person who so much as tries to point out how IMC’s method is not quite right.
The problem here is that the current real life cost of the Tokens may bar the less fortunate from having access to the tokens - whether they choose to buy it in real currency or in-game currency. That leads to severe imbalance that favors the wealthy few and isn’t good for the game at all - because it’s only a matter of time before those wealthy few drive all other potential purchasers away. It can be solved as easily as lowering Token prices or by reducing their benefits a little.
For someone who claims to understand business on a deep level and how money makes the world go 'round, you sure do have a shallow understanding of it if you just think it’s all about the digits next to the dollar sign. F2P is a business model that takes tweaking and balance to get right - it’s not as simple as selling benefits as one party sees fit, nor removing those benefits entirely.
A little late, but specifically regarding token hoarders, and manipulating the token market to inflate prices, they are limited in their ability to manipulate by how chokingly restrictive the market system really is. Especially if it costs TP to list items, like in kToS. I’m not sure if that’s planned for iToS, though. We’ll know in mere hours, eh’?
If it doesn’t cost TP to list items, it becomes possible to play that game a little better. Five slots isn’t much, but if the whales cooperated, it could be done to a limited extent. These price “barriers” in my experience are unlikely to last long enough to hold tokens away from their real price, though. A smart manipulator makes his way by creating temporary shortages - you can never hold goods away from what people want to pay for long, before you start buying everything and managing to sell nothing.
Failed attempts of that nature end up with a whale or group of whales who have purchased tokens until their silver runs out, and the inevitable price crash that follows. Then they sell at a loss. It’s happen to me - once!
The less fortunate? how in the world is getting a PART time job working a minimum of 12 hours a week such a hard thing to do? This also helps kids around the age of 16 ( I do not know the legal age of working in everyone’s country but ours is 16) to build up there resume while making some extra cash to throw around.
Also if they are so “less fortunate” maybe they should not be wasting there time playing a video game and work on there actual life?
For someone who claims to think they know everything about tokens and such maybe the root of the problem is in today’s day and age kids maybe people in general are too damn lazy to work for what they want?
You make it seem like the people with money need to be singled out because they have money. Well guess what? those people with money keep these types of games alive as long as the cash shop is not P2W I give them props for shelling out whatever amount they want because in the end we need a server to actually play on.
Also the tokens arent even that a big of a deal to begin with you guys try and focus on “oh hes better then me cause he spent money on TOKENS!!” when you have all lost sight on the fact that the goal of an mmo is to actually meet people and make memories out of it like RO1 in the end everyone is going to get to max anyways so if someone does it before you so what? how is the token system hurting you in anyway besides the 1v1 trading which isnt even all that good to start with?
And please spare me the BS about no jobs there is always jobs SOMEONE does not want to do.
This will be my last post in this thread as the game will start up 3 hours after I have finished WORK.
And now you turn this into a rant about how you think everyone should be earning money. It’s not a very good show from someone taking a superior stance like yours.
Singled out for earning money? No. I actually expect them, and people like you, as working individuals, to actually be more mature than those who don’t. In other words: I expected better from you, since I’m a working individual as well, yet I can understand why not everyone is able to earn money (be that disability, depression, or just being a student who is too busy to do so).
To lump so many people with different reasons behind their lack of funds together and call all them ‘lazy’ is, to me, very childish. Clearly my expectation was misplaced.
Anyway, yes, It’s good that you will stop posting. Because you didn’t understand the issue being highlighted here in the first place and how it may affect everyone in the long run. All the best.
Um… chill out dood.
Here’s the deal. Do you think most F2P players would want to play a game where they cannot easily obtain all the things that cash players do?
People like their games to be challenging but fair. So a little bit of imbalance is okay. (Someone has to go first in Chess or Go for example, but everything else is pretty much symmetric)
If your point is to say F2P players should top complaining and screw them for wanting more… then I think that’s being shortsighted… If the majority of the population (especially in the future) is going to be F2P, how busy and large do you think this community would be if all those F2P players left? I mean, if you want to play in a small group, fine, but that’s not what an MMO is about…
I know I wouldn’t want to play a game that only has a few diehard fans without a lot of other players. This is what kills mmos. So I don’t understand why you are so okay with throwing F2P players under the bus… MMOs are about the community.
I also don’t understand why people defend corporations and companies. It’s their job to sell you things and provide a good rationale and value offer for what they sell. I mean, unless you are an employee of imc, I can hardly think of any reasons why you might want to defend them. It’s not like they’ve particularly earned your loyalty or anything right? After all, you’re going to be the one paying them money, not the other way around…
Many thanks for the reply. Actually turns out a lot of assumptions that I originally had were just straight up untrue! So some issues are alleviated. Other issues may be worse off though. Take a look at the string of posts started by Elysion:
Based on our conversation, it sounds like manipulating markets would be extremely difficult since there are limits to the min and max prices that you sell things for (even tokens!).
But this generates a new worry which is if 5+ token buying players find out they can’t make nearly as much money as they think they will, then they might buy less. The polling data already suggests a pretty precarious situation where F2P players might not be able to obtain Tokens easily. (Also 1 token buying players may want to switch to F2P and would have a built up advantage in terms of buying power which would further screw over F2P players).
The biggest problem in my mind still seems to be token supply.