you’re very welcome, i know you can’t do it without me.
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Um… don’t you think the long term health of the subscriber and F2P player bases is important for the longevity of this game?
That’s what I worry about for many many paragraphs in this thread.
I appreciate your thread here, trying to change things, but I don’t think IMC is really going for the longevity, based on their actions.
They are showing all the signs of just wanting to suck out all the money that they can, while the people are still hyped about the game.
I am sad to see that there are people that are defending their practice and that they are blind to the fact that the game will die if it goes on as it is.
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Sorry, I have to get this off my chest: when someone tries to stand up for F2P, there is occasionally a reply like yours. Something that tries to sound like a working, responsible adult trying to teach kids the weight of the world by yelling. ‘Oh life is not fair’, ‘no money, no game’, ‘support the game or grind, if not get a job’.
I know there is a lot of whining on these forums and I’ve seen people who are difficult, if not impossible to please. But if you are what you are trying to make yourself out to be - that is, a mature person who has a job - then you should also be able to filter the whine from the legitimate analyses of the game. Heck, you shouldn’t be bothered by whining in the first place because you have a job to do. Why waste your precious time on it?
TL;DR: please don’t try to pass yourself off as a working person earning money by throwing insults at those who can’t afford to pay for things like games when you can’t even read the opening post. If you want people to act their age, start by example and do so yourself.
Before you say anything else like ‘hurr you must be F2P’: I’m a paying customer with a civic duty, too, and I’m helping a friend by buying him the Founder’s Package so that he can play as well, even though I don’t earn much. Having a job doesn’t give you the right to lord some sort of superiority over others; each person has their own circumstances. And instead of just pointing out how unfair the world is to those less fortunate than yourself, you could be helping to make it less unfair.
By doing this on the other hand, you are just making the rest of the working community look bad.
I really like Tree of Savior (the game). I really like the music, I really like the art, I even like a decent amount of the gameplay (of course there can always be improvements 
).
I’m not as big a fan of imc (the company) even if they were the ones that made the game.
I do the best that I can to provide data and well reasoned posts in the hope that someone higher up in imc is listening. It may fall on deaf ears, but I can’t just give up yet for something I like so much.
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A couple things to factor in
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There are items new players can farm that higher level players need, repeatably. (this helps even out inflation between the levels)
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You cant resell a token once you have bought it through the AH, so there wont be any hoarding/market playing. People selling a token are wanting to sell the token then and there, people buying a token are wanting to use the token.
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Yeah, I’ve been very active for the 3 months thing, trying to change it, a big part of community complained too, so they changed it.
I just think there’s not enough of a backlash about THIS issue. There’s just handful of us that are really seeing the problem that’s going to arise in the long run, unless they change things.
Staff is also very inactive, it’s just the worst combo ever. Greed and no one caring about what the community is saying.
Thank you for points that definitely help alleviate quite a few worries!
So hoarding is not an issue.
I’m not sure that high levels buying items from low level players necessarily completely solves silver inflation. Those higher levels presumably have more opportunities to make money and would have more purchasing power in terms of obtaining tokens I’m guessing.
I still think the biggest issue is that some ~8% of the population will be buying ~40% of the tokens with very few people buying 2,3, or 4 tokens per month.
I just look at that $90+ per month and I think it’s not sustainable… who is going to want to continue paying $90+ a month for a game for months on end? And I feel like the number of people who will do so is likely an overestimate. We’ll see I guess…
EDIT: I’ve gone ahead and updated my starting post with this new information
EDIT 2: There’s also the looming question of what proportion of people who said they would buy 1 token a month will want to transition to buying tokens with in-game money. If that number is big and supply is not enough, there will still be issues… Those switching 1 token players will also probably have more buying power compared to F2P players.
Are there many examples of currency/market manipulation in kToS?
(I’m assuming that’s where you got the first two points from?)
Its really not possible, this games market is really restrictive. Things that dont lose potential being sold, are one time AH sells and then cant be resold (materials/monster drops mainly, which is what i was referring to since some repeatable dailies need these and higher levels are prone to just buying)
Also everything’s min and max price is fixed by some weird behind the scenes calculation, so your options even on what you will sell things for is restricted.
Not to mention you must wait two days (iir) before you can collect the money you made through selling something
This is second hand ktos info, i was very interested with the way the market worked and so asked some people i know who have been playing ktos
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Is still an issue. Players that had headstart will have more buying power on the market, so they might as well hoard tokens while they are cheap to use them in dire times when inflation becomes unbearable.
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Oh, so that min-max calculation applies even to tokens?
Many thanks for this deluge of information!
Yeah, i know that for sure. I was contemplating actually ‘playing the token market’, as ive enjoyed that kind of minigame in the past with games that have plex-like systems, but after looking into it i learned that its impossible, number of trades a token can have is restricted like mats, and their prices are restricted with the same mysterious limits, so even buying ones with silver when their price is down and selling my own gold-bought ones when the prices are up looks not to be worth the hassle of just buying my own token
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My biggest worry was that rich players could buy all the tokens on market and resell them at a high price, or hold onto them effectively decreasing supply.
But it’s a good point that someone could play markets by buying many tokens up ahead of time if they see a price increase in the future.
EDIT: I’ve added it to the post and credited you
Err… but if/when those $90+ 5+ token buyers find out about this system which will really reduce how much they’ll make and what they can sell for… won’t the token supply situation just get even worse?
EDIT: My biggest worry throughout this thread is that F2P players will not have a reasonable chance to obtain tokens, especially when competing against higher level and/or previously paying players who want to switch to free.
EDIT2: I still think a driving force for the problem is that western players are more sensitive to the $18 price point. If it were lower, I think we would see more people willing to buy tokens to sell.
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Now for my input didn’t expect me to appear did you 
.
Chronosanct you have done something great today you have become a ideal community member you have documented all your information in research information might not be 100% on key but it is there as you have stated this also this information does 2 things.
Shows the ones of the community who are unsure about things how things could be and what in tales for the future of the tokens in the system and how a little bit of research and facts can go a long way.
Shows gathered information to the moderator’s to pass on to the higher ups to give them more insight to the mind of there community members that we can be logical at times in response to there direction of the game rather then looking at us as mindless sheep that go where the higher ups point us with the development of the game.
If no one has thanked you then I will be the first to personally say keep up the good work.
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Those who dont want to buy at $18 can alternate paying months with buying tokens for silver (effectively buying 0.5 tokens per month <- something poll didnt account for) halving his expenditures and making situation worse for F2P players at same time.
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Sorry for the wall of text above against the flamer. I almost forgot what I originally wanted to say: thanks for doing the research on this and bringing up these issues.
With time, I hope the accuracy of this can be improved. It can be beneficial for those who have to pay too, especially if IMC can be convinced to lower token prices somehow.
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How am I “passing” myself as a working person? I AM a working person and all I see are a bunch of people not wanting any sort of cash shop how do you think this game is going to survive? I would really love to hear your answer.
the number one reason is companies put out games and or products to get one thing MONEY. Money is what makes the world go round and lets face it F2P players need to get a grip on this sort of thing because it isnt going to change IMC is a very small company from what I have read and the only complaint i agree with is that i see are the threads about no EU servers(although there are just way too many threads made about the same topic)
So again tell me how is IMC going to get this game to survive with any type of income? cash shops with just costumes isnt going to cut it.
You can throw numbers at me all day about tokens and what not but the only number that matters to IMC is the number next to the money sign because without that they cannot keep making content.
so if they do take out the token system and leave the cash shop up people are still going to complain about the prices in the cash shop because they are going to be higher then what they are now.
also i like how you call me a flamer when what i wrote is actually true you guys want no edge at all for people supporting this game if there was nothing coming to the players spending money on this game i hardly think people would be throwing 50 dollars at this game for a “oh i support this game” there needs to be something coming back to give them a reason to spend money no one gives out money for free.
oh yeah this is all my opinion btw if i come off as a “flamer” i dont mean to i just dont see how a company can survive without a constant stream of money is all.
It seems I’ve hit the nail on the head here judging by how you’re just ranting and raving almost incoherently at this point. Not to mention repeating your ignorant ‘MONEY IS EVERYTHING’ argument.
Here’s the answer: no one here is saying to remove cash benefits entirely. People do understand that a company needs income to survive. If you had actually bothered to read the post and the discussions going on in the thread like a reasonable working person should, you would have seen that it isn’t just whining and pointless information. But you didn’t because you’re on this biased hate spree toward every person who so much as tries to point out how IMC’s method is not quite right.
The problem here is that the current real life cost of the Tokens may bar the less fortunate from having access to the tokens - whether they choose to buy it in real currency or in-game currency. That leads to severe imbalance that favors the wealthy few and isn’t good for the game at all - because it’s only a matter of time before those wealthy few drive all other potential purchasers away. It can be solved as easily as lowering Token prices or by reducing their benefits a little.
For someone who claims to understand business on a deep level and how money makes the world go 'round, you sure do have a shallow understanding of it if you just think it’s all about the digits next to the dollar sign. F2P is a business model that takes tweaking and balance to get right - it’s not as simple as selling benefits as one party sees fit, nor removing those benefits entirely.