Tree of Savior Forum

[Poll] Transcendence System

General Discussion
#192

If that’s how they affect you, then the root of all your problems is IMC’s lack of action against RMT, not trans itself. I don’t see how RMT’ing shards ■■■■■ up the economy, if anything it increases shard prices once they disappear from the market, which should be beneficial to casuals. Also, what inflation? token at 3m+? if you’re in klaip, that’s caused by some rich assholes hoarding them.

I agree trans is a bad system that should’ve never been implemented, at least shards should’ve remained untradable and then made easier to obtain, but it’s too late now, and just removing trans will negatively impact that awesome number of 3k.

#193

Right, but as pointed out earlier you’re against even nerfing it to a reasonable level. So basically you’re acknowledging it’s a terrible system and bad for the game, but because you already invested in it we have to keep it forever or you’ll throw a fit.

Honestly if we got rid of this ■■■■ system and all the rest, maybe you and the RMTers would quit, but the game would probably grow because it would no longer be so ■■■■.

1 Like
#194

IMC is against nerfing the boosts, they’ve already stated that, it’s not gonna happen. A real solution to trans that doesn’t really negatively impact most parts is to make shards abundant or decrease gem requierements, which I think IMC has talked about.

Acknowledging? I’ve never said it’s a good system. I’m also not saying we should keep it right as it is forever. You people know no middle ground, huh?

Trans isn’t even in the top 10 problems in this game LOL

#195

Maybe not the most pressing, but I and a lot of other players think it’s there in the top 10.

It’s definitely a ticking realization timebomb for new players especially for those who didn’t go the meta/optimal route for their builds.

4 Likes
#196

Transcendence is definitely within the top ranks of issues needed to be solved. Granted it isn’t the root of the inbalances felt in the game, but it certainly amplifies them, making the divide wider.

If we take transcendence out of the picture, we can actually see that weapon atk power balances out with the attack power gained from core stats. R8 base 400-500 p/matk weapons is equivalent to the p/matk power a character will gain if they choose to invest their core stat. It is balanced in that regard.

However, with skill damage reaching thousands, it already severely hurts both core stats and itemisation. Now they add transcendence to the mix, increasing the gap between weapon/equipment vs core stats, worsening and leading to the issue we have now, INT/STR being underpowered and worthless.

Next is the issue of balance between classes, transcendence may have helped classes become viable, but the same equipment used by the already balanced classes increases the divide even more since they deal more damage in the beginning.

Transcendence is a good idea for end game imo, but it is pushed out far too early at this stage of the game. It should be kept at least till R10 is out, and all the classes are already balanced. Having it out now is just increasing the problems the game already has. Which is why my recommendation is to change how the current transcendence work, provide compensation to those who are invested in it. When R10 is out then reintroduce the same equipment enhancing system, at that time where (hopefully) everything is balanced then this system will be a boon rather than a bane.

7 Likes
#197

You’re very naive or ignorant if you believe that. A new player gets into the game, struggles through the low level problems, then reaches rank 8 and looks around and wonders “Why does everyone else’s weapon have 20x the attack my weapon has?” then realizes they have to either grind for months on multiple alts or RMT to catch up, that is absolutely a ■■■■■■■ problem and I sure as hell wouldn’t continue to play the game if that were me.

Make shards more abundant is easy enough to say, but how abundant is abundant enough? If you’re against removing it entirely, I imagine you’d be against making it so common that you could fully transcend your weapon in a week, right? So we’d still be seeing people farming for months to achieve adequate transcendence to even play the game, and it’d still make it so you pool all the resources from your alts into a single character which goes against the spirit of the game, it still invalidates many weapons and creates imbalances (Weapon with 50 base attack and 100 elemental attack vs. weapon with 150 base attack is relatively even without transcendence - with transcendence the high base attack weapon is VASTLY superior), it’s just overall a shitty idea to include in the game. Edit: Also the stat imbalance @Nekorin points out, though stats are badly in need of reworking as well, transcendence definitely makes the imbalance much worse. Why would you ever waste points on INT/STR when transcendence exists? A guy with a transcended white/common weapon and 0 STR is going to hit harder than someone with an untranscended orange weapon and full STR.

If you make it easily available to anyone, it’s the same as it being removed except it still continues to create problems. If you keep it a huge grind, it’s detrimental to the health of the game. It straight up needs to go or be seriously reworked to not be the single biggest power spike of anything in the game.

11 Likes
#198

You pointed out everything.

#199

When Trans first came out it was impossible to max. It was like they created a placeholder that they could deal with later in the future, while allowing players to work on goals that are initially sensible, same deal with Gems (hence we don’t use lvl 10 gems), and Team level.

By making it tradable they allowed a very small amount of the community to ■■■■ up what was basically gated so that they wouldn’t need to fix it until about a year and a half+ if that because the time commitment was that long.

At some point they have to cut their losses and just decide to fix their ■■■■.
The longer they postpone it the worse the situation gets.

5 Likes
#200

Tradeable within team only would be acceptable. But then they went ahead to make it fully tradeable. So much fun.

Now we wait for next Monday for their grand plans on how to rework transcendence without screwing both sides.

2 Likes
#201

They should just give compensation and rework it alongside Solmiki, stats, and skills. That and they should add another mastery type tree to promote really diverse builds. As someone who farmed for my shards, it’s really easy to know that the system is not really a smart idea. Okay even if you farmed for one character with all your alts or if you farmed hard enough with your main char, you gotta do the same for your alts… Single hit skills get cucked so hard because mobs are designed in endgame to have 3m hp to match high transcendence. I’m only really half against reworking trans though because no one really did the math as to how much single skill will be reworked from each of the classes and IMC kinda just throws numbers out of the window a lot of times lol. For that I know transcendence right now is not working out but stay neutral in my stance due to IMC balancing.

@MagicOne Yeah I remember before they made it tradable, I was saving up cubes and actually re-rolled them. One week later, they end up making them tradable and few days later we see people running around Trans 10 lol.

2 Likes
#202

i honestly don’t want to bother playing tos until transcendence is nerfed drastically or infact removed since the game never needed this bull crap content to begin with, even the koreans were complaining about it, besides new players will hardly stay as long as transcendence stays game breaking.
@STAFF_Ines @STAFF_Amy

1 Like
#203

@STAFF_Max
@STAFF_Ethan
@STAFF_Yuri
@STAFF_Ines
@STAFF_Letitia
@STAFF_Amy
@staff
@GM_Francis

#204

I hate the transcendence system. It promotes chore like grinding and it also is mandatory to keep your character viable for end game content.

Most end game is balanced around transcendence. Not actual classes, skills, gear or potions/elixirs etc. Just around transcendence that is boring to do, takes forever and is expensive.

4 Likes
#205

We should always give criticism and feedback regardless of the circumstance. But unfortunately we may have missed the window of opportunity to have our suggestions implemented, as IMC will be talking about Transcendence rebalancing on the 3rd. That means they already have an idea about how they want Transcendence to play out, and it doesn’t look like a removal.

The community did a good job realising the imbalances (though some of the talk about it being balanced in R7 concerns me,) but didn’t do as good of a job suggesting an alternative. Even after they release details on Transcendence we should still provide feedback on it, even if our conclusion involves removing or further drastic changes, but I don’t have too much hope in our ideas being implemented as we simply didn’t have an alternative with any kind of consensus and now it may be too late.

1 Like
#206

Where does it say they will be talking about trans on the 3rd?

#207

We’ll have to wait for details of course though.

#208

I wish the staff can participate more actively in forums though. Sad to say I can’t really feel their presence at all in ToS forums especially in important topics such as this. Wonder how much of our feedback actually went to through to the devs.

5 Likes
#209

They assure me they do read through them, especially when they are tagged. Unfortunately Papaya chose to be cryptic when I asked about this particularly thread though. :sweat_smile:

It would be great to get a little feedback about even their personal feelings on these issues. But we should remember that some people like to take whatever the Staff say and overblow it to make it seem official just because they have the Staff tag on, so it can be hard for them to communicate without trouble arising.

3 Likes
#210

Even that’s terrible, honestly. Imagine if, say, EXP cards were tradeable (and the game was as grindy as it used to be) within team, and you just keep on creating alts to level up to the high level maps to farm EXP cards and trade them to your main for EXP, leaving all your alts underleveled and shitty. That’s basically what trans forces you into.

1 Like
#211

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