Tree of Savior Forum

"please remove bots" vs "we want trade"

You can’t satisfy both parties in a f2p game whether you like it or not, so pick one. Do you want an important mmo feature in a completely ruined mmo or can you live without it in a relatively healthy mmo?

Many of the restrictions such as high taxes, 48 hr delay, inability to trade silver directly etc, are clearly with the intentions to fight against bots. I didn’t need to read their explanations to see this. Yet many still claim they did this so people would buy their tokens - this is painfully ignorant and nonsense. Open your eyes, they don’t make rl money from taxing your sales. It doesn’t make them happy when you are sad that you can’t receive your money in less than 48 hours.

They only thing that didn’t quite make sense to me was the restrictions on transferring items/silver between characters on the same team, which they acknowledged and are looking into. They are also looking to reduce the delay on the market. What more do you want?

I mean keep in mind this is the creator of RO which failed because of bots, which led to private servers and other shenanigans. They are obviously trying to avoid the same mistake. They are doing all they can to minimize botting and private servers, and I say they are doing a pretty good job so far. “Are you crazyt?! but I still see bots!” True, but 99% of the people I see now are legitimate players, only very few people are bots. Yes there will be more bots after this game goes f2p, but it will be way worse if they lift the restrictions. I mean we already have a lot of complaints on bots and spammers. It’ll only get way worse if they allow trading. As a legitimate player, I do not feel I got punished at all. If I need something, I go to the market. If I want to sell something, I sell at the market with 10% tax just like other mmos. I just don’t see what the fuzz is about.

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yup , if u are able to trade , bots will have free reign ,mmorpgs are forced to adapt measures to fight bots even if that frustrate players in the process…is sad

Ppl will say ban bots…but u ban 10 …100 take their place…ban 100 . 1000 come …the root of the issue is the players in the 1 place , no players buying money = no bots at all…yet those buyers are the 1 to raise fist against the devs for putting this barriers…

healthy economy free of bots w/o trade, or inflation across the board , bots everywhere and spam 24/7, but being able to trade?

It’s not 10% like other MMOs, it’s $18 a month for 10%

I’d be happier if they lightened the F2P market restrictions, and lowered the cost of the token…
30% tax on 1 item is pretty ridiculous, I’d say 20% on 5 is reasonable. Give token users something like 10-20 with 10% tax.
Lowering the cost of tokens is kind of self-explanatory. They simply aren’t worth the cost, assuming they’re sticking with the $9=100TP.

I’d also like to see a 5-10 second cooldown on megaphones. It would prevent the 5 insta-messages, so you could block them after the first one.

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bro common, tokens are 500k on the market. It takes like a couple hours to make that much.

you can do that… but it kinda defeats the purpose. It’s not punishing enough for the bots.

Whether or not people can purchase them with in-game currency, they should want players to buy them with real money for the sake of their company. It’s simple, they’re a business and they’re charging too much. I’ve seen plenty of people who say they’re not going to buy them because of the price… I’m one of them.

It’s also less punishing towards free players, which is why everyone is upset. Since you made this post I figured you were looking to win-over the angry mobs, it’s just my suggestion.

The token sellers bought tokens with their real money.[quote=“Raiden121212, post:5, topic:180640”]
It’s simple, they’re a business and they’re charging too much.
[/quote]
$18 take most people less than an hour to make…I mean my sushi dinner last night cost $50. Also, subscription-based mmos charge about that much. WoW charged $15 a month in 2004… Adding 3 dollars after inflation sounds about right. Beside, you aren’t required to pay - it’s optional.

The biggest issue to me is the limit of ONE item listed on the market for free players and the ridiculous silver retrieval delay. If they fixed both of these to something reasonable I wouldn’t complain, but anyone defending this garbage system for 18$ a month which is ALMOST TWICE THE COST of a monthly fee on AAA GAMES is just delusional.

f2p players are already playing for free. Every minute they spend on this game is a gain. Anyone complaining about free stuff is just sad.

WoW is $15, 18/15 = 2? nice math

Agree with all of your points!
Lower cost of token or scale/revamp token benefits so that we can actually feel the benefits other than the 30-10% tax reduction!
Megaphone cooldown is ok, but I don’t see any RMT ads on global shout after the latest patch anyway. They changed to staying in towns and spamming ads.

Games like WoW, Eve and FF14 all have long-sub options for 6-9-12 months which end up costing 9 to 10$ a month in long term. Plus some of those can even be bought with ingame currency which makes their monthly fee zil for any longterm player.

Free players consist of around 90% of the playerbase for almost every game out there. If they go away you have a dead game regardless of how much you’re paying. And ToS is not remotely close to the level of quality and polish for what it costs.

No ■■■■, I’m saying they’ll sell more if they make them a reasonable price.

Not everyone has the same income, or is willing to spend that much on entertainment. Again, they’ll sell more by lowering the price. Also consider this game is at least somewhat targeted towards younger audiences (Rated T, heavy chat filters, lack of blood and gore), not everyone playing this game is going to have a job. Kids are going to want to spend their allowance on this crap. (I know I did, back when I was playing Runescape.) Again, resulting in more sales.

Thete is one and only way. Gms in game in all servers 24/7 baning any one boting/gold selling on the spot.
What ever they do now not only do nothing but makibg sellers stronger.
The only way is if the buyer “sell” some item on thr AH for what ever he buy. This way there cant be schemes. Its not working for imc.
The sellers sell. People leave because bots wnd restrictions.imc lose here.

yeah I don’t remember ever paying $9 a month for WoW even with the yearly plan.

like I said, free players are already playing for free. What do they have to lose really? They’ll keep playing if they like it, and if they do, they’ll make enough to buy tokens off the market. You’ll get people who don’t give a F about $18 irl as token suppliers.

I think we need to stop comparing the subscription to WoW and the like.
It’s more about what you as a player are willing to pay, for the benefits of the token.

anything will sell more at a lower price (econ 101 spoiler), but that’s not how it works…

judging by the # of RO players, most of whom are in their mid 20-early 30s, that’s not true… kids who don’t have money to pay can decide between candy crush and tos i guess, but i’d choose tos if I were a kid.

You really don’t get it.

Even burger flippers earning minimum wage have enough disposable income to spend on games on most western countries. It’s not a matter of people not having money to pay for a game, it’s a matter of there being vastly superior ways to spend that money in almost every other game out there. But I guess the concept of opportunity cost is unknown for people who make loose arguments like that.

Playing full AAA games with no restrictions for 10-15$ a month compared to paying $18 to lift basic restrictions on an unfinished F2P title with dropping steam reviews by the day isn’t exactly a sound business plan. And yes you can buy Wow cards for about $10 a month in any local retailer or authorized vendor around here.

F2P players aren’t going to stick for long on a game with bad reputation and terrible restrictions.

lol opportunity cost is how much $ you would make for the time you are doing something else, in this case playing the game. If you make 20 bucks an hour, the OC for playing the game would be 20/hour, not the utility you would get from spending time playing another game. Technicality aside, if you think there are better ways to spend that money, do it. no one is forcing you here. If IMC isn’t making enough sales, they’ll adjust accordingly like any company would.

I dislike the word “AAA”. I mean what really defines it? The production value or how fun the game is to play? I mean EA, ubisoft make tons of AAA titles, but all of them last less than 50 hours for me. I’ve already spent 60-80 hours on TOS since launch and I plan to spend hundreds more hours. Does this make TOS less of a AAA game? If AAA means a game that’s supposed to be superior or more fun, i say TOS is more AAA than all those EA/ubisoft titles. Again, it’s players’ own decisions whether they want to stick around or not. F2p players got nothing to lose. They can do w/e they want to do w/ their money. If they find the game fun, they either pay or buy tokens from the market. I see no problem there.

Currently they are satisfying neither as we have a ■■■■ ton of bots AND a ■■■■■■ trade system lol

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I disagree with their way of thinking.

Sorry but, the way to fight bots is NOT to cripple in-game features.

First it’s removal of trade for F2P and silver for everyone. Soon it’s removal of item trades completely cause bots can still sell items from auction house through infinite silver botting accounts. Then silver drop will be reduced to 1/10 to slow down bots farming. Then what? they will just remove auction house altogether?

Like I said, you may hurt bots a bit cause they can’t trade silver anymore, but you hurt the player-base WAY more. Botters just find ways around it, selling gold is their business.

The way to fight bots is with smart anti-bots systems and automatic punishment of them. Going through bots manually and banning them is a waste of time.

Man I really should have worded my thread like this. Presenting people with the results of both decisions clears up a lot of the choices IMC made.