Tree of Savior Forum

PLEASE, please dont release silver trade between players

General Discussion
#42

No game in the history of gaming has ever had such issues of RMT lol. This isn’t even out in “public release” yet and RMT bogeymen are here to get everyone. It’s like the war on terror or something. The public truly believes RMTers are some super powered bad guys here to rape your women and steal your baby.

“oh my god baby, I saw a Goldseller! There he was with his greedy little hands. And a tail! Omg I think I saw a tail too!”

IMC has tricked so many. Yes believe you sheep. RMT is to blame for everything wrong in this game lol. Let’s curve an entire game feature that exists in any other game to stop the absolute minority that RMTs. /sarcasm

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#43

You sure are good at typing a lot of words without actually saying anything.

Not to mention being completely wrong. Diablo3 built an entire RMT AH section of their game centered around trying to fight it. Blizzard was incredibly salty about RMT in D2.

#44

Notice how D3 actually LOVED it. No joke, they want it back. I’ve still played some D3 and it’s pretty enjoyable. Why did their AH shut down? It wasn’t making them enough money for the cost of its systems. The difference is Blizzard built an economy that works with their gamers, not against them. I know, a pretty progressive idea isn’t it. Don’t restrict, enable. They even continued to do so.

Since you brought Bliz into the fold, look at World Of Warcraft. Subs sold for in-game gold and a legit gold buying market fueled by players. See the major difference? No, not yet? Tree of savior instead of encouraging you to buy silver, which in fact they are by deterring RMTing but that’s a natural and beneficial thing to everyone here anyways, they want you to be completely restricted until you do. The greed is there, hardly anyone is arguing that fact. We see everything behind a paywall. From trade to dungeon runs (just wait till TP sells reset vouchers), etc. anyways I think I’ve said a lot. You might not be comprehending much but I can’t help there

Edit: you know nothing about the insides of Bliz. You don’t even have a motive as to why Bliz would be salty about RMT in D2. That game was buy to play, Show some source or logic to how and why Bliz even cared for RMT during D2

#45

Keep silver out of trades, I’m okay with this.

Item trading on the other hand, should be allowed and given to non-token users.

#46

I don’t know what game you’ve played where gold sellers didn’t wreak the economy.

Edit: every game I played where there was too much gold in the server either through botting or I’ll planned events wreaked the economy.

There was no way to catch up legitimately unless you were craft god of specialized items or smiled upon by rngesus

#47

I’m with the OP on this one, with a caveat - they need to make market difficult to access for bots, so all of the inconvenience we currently deal with isn’t for nothing.

The system I propose basically tracks % of quests completed relative to level to detect bots and award market use. More details in this thread here, which not enough people see because I followed the rules and put it in Suggestions:

#48

The proof is in the pudding of what they did with D3 RMT, and i was ALL over the D2 forums in the game’s hay-day. Blizzard hated RMT with a passion, and they figured if they can’t beat em, join em.

Go figure that D3 was the most successful when they discarded it altogether, but that had more to do with their shitty item-dropping formulas on release that would put STR on a wizard item.

#49

Name one game where the economy IS wrecked by goldselling. Even age old games like RO still brings in money. But by practicality if it’s “goldselling” that wrecked their economy it’s Gravity that’s doing it with every box they sell on their own marketplace. And that’s a game with what, 15 years of inflation and item saturation? Yet after a few years of playing an average joe like me can acquire Mjolnir and other high end items.

There is no game with an economy that isn’t wrecked by their own company due to greed. If P2W exists, to be foreseen in ToS, then you sure as hell bet the own developers and publishers are selling their own version of gold(tokens) and can place the blame equally on them, if not entirely

@Boon again mate. Every game where an economy matters, that gold selling is an “issue” the developers joined in on the selling. See why this is an issue for different reasons to everyone. Some cry greed, paywall, others because it ruins the atmosphere of an MMO (friends n guilds sharing and empowering).
Also realize it’s the nature of inflation. You expecting to start one year in and being able to buy things in a “reasonable” amount of effort to a founder is unreasonable in itself. That’s like coming to Los Angeles on minimum wage and buying a house in three years. That might have worked 25 years ago, but guess what, games not at that point anymore. It’s the nature in all things.

It a game could keep such an insanely stable economy it’s more likely due to linear demand. Which is pretty plain and stale. Like WoW has, spoon fooding you all that you need so there’s hardly any demand for market items anyways.

#50

Hard to judge D3 to this and RMT now anyways. Their AH is shut down and their current botting issues are about leaderboards and paragon levels. But I think we can agree that Blizzard’s join em if you can’t beat them is at least a more enjoyable way to go about things for the playerbase.

People making money off the AH? Who isn’t titalated by that right. I know I enjoyed making enough to pay for the game and some off the first few days of D3’s Real Money Auction. Imagine if ToS did that? Who would be opposed? The tables would be completely turned in this trade debate.

#51

Trading would be fun WITHOUT silver as long as it’s opened.

#52

Maybe it is just me, but I never enjoyed playing the AH game I much rather enjoy playing the game it is supporting. =P

#53

yea but you can’t deny that there are many players who love the market life style. Myself being one of them. Buying and selling to turn a profit.

#54

Indeed. I assume based on the IMC announcement that the 48 hr window is only temporary until they get a better handle on what they are combating against.

#55

that alone would be a good improvement if it does go.

#56

Diablo 3 turned off trading or has limited tradingn pretty much a solo game now this was buy to play only.

I Pretty sure the only reason a game offers the buy to win option is if they can’t deter it they can at least get some of that business and cash flow from it. Unlike the gold botters who only need to pay for electricity and minor equipment IMC has to pay staff, licensing fees etc. They are a proper business.

In order to get people interested because we are terrible people you need some incentive aside from ooo shiny. Why the hell would I spend 50 bucks for a hat? If it gave something else I might be more inclined to do so.

Also this happened with Maplestory.the cash shop was at one point purely cosmetics. eventually it ended up pay to win. Why? Ask your self, If you can’t stop botters and the influx of gold is making people leave except those willing to spend money for digital currency how can we get their business instead? As terrible as it is yeah because a few members of the community can’t behave themselves IMC and other companies have to resort to this

#57

By the way I do agree wi the some points but unfortunately the problem doesn’t only lie with the company.

In maplestory during the hacking era. My friends all bought gold I never did. Guess who had a terrible time keeping up? The hacking got so prevalent I just out right quit. It wasn’t fun anymore. Ms was a train wreak for years. In the end nexon resorted to pay to win. As toxic as it is you might as well squeeze out what you can.

Gold sellers are essentially stealing off the developers. You don’t go to someone’s farm, steal their crops and start selling it. That’s what’s happening. It’s harder to deter these individuals in international versions because unlike in korea you arent held liable for what you do on the Internet be cause of the stigma here.

#58

which in turn will make TOS look less appealing to other games as well as any new game that comes out.

Sadly, that also makes the game increasingly less appealing to their actual playerbase.

So while the RMT still make profit on people that decide to stick with the game, IMC is losing customers with people that don’t want to put up with all those trading limitations.

#59

Fair point, but it is an assumption and not fact that ‘people are leaving’ because of this. They can hem and haw on the forums all they want, but only IMC knows if it is really affecting their bottom line.

#60

That’s what ToS should be focusing on then. Preventing hacks, bots, foul gameplay. They’re trying to stop RMTing at the end of its cycle, during sales. It burdens me with a heavy heart when games have rampant hacking too of course. Survival zombie games like DayZ/WarZ/7 days to die would all be much more enjoyable knowing that their game wasn’t poorly coded and easily manipulated. It sounds to me that ToS is done poorly, as sad as it is to say. There’s a consistent stereotype out there among gamers that Korean Developers are lazy. Even in the most modern MMOs like Archeage there were tons of packet manipulations/injections because client side was too heavily used during the data configuration.

That’s part of this issue, sure. But that’s exactly within reason for developers to use, by definition, their job to develop a stable and proper working game. Instead they’re doing it the laziest of ways and most punishing yet most profitable to themselves. These things don’t just by chance all happen to be the same, it’s literally design intent.

Edit:
About lazy Korean developers. It might not be in fact that they’re lazy but that their gaming online is held to a higher standard and stricter restriction in general. The online ID that they utilize, supposedly mirrored to something of a social security number, which deters most gamers there from foul play to begin with. The question here is why isn’t that the same main deterrent for ToS? I don’t know about you, but if I spent 200+ hours on an account, the last thing I want is to risk it being banned. That seems to work for any other game. Just ban buyers/sellers. Stop with this trade bullshit

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#61

I’m pretty sure 40% negative steam reviews ARE affecting their bottom line, and not even IMC can keep track of the non-downloads of people being deterred by negative reviews.

And most of these reviews mention the trading as a point besides the admittedly hardly avoidable lag.

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