The game has a ton of areas that aren’t visited through the main story, and plenty of them are good grind spots.
look at the map at the moment, it isn’t linear as other MMOs.
meanign, if y ou are lvl 40, you can go into lvl 100 zone from the lvl 40 map. go explore brah.
nothign wrong w the way the quests are structured at the moment
Just dont use the wuest as such then.
Ignore it xD.
You can go anywhere you like without doing it.
I found two ways of makeing decent exp of enemys double my level xD (or atleast 50% more then my level).
I’ve played MMORPGs for the last 12 or 15 years. Quests were always there, but the themeparks and the handholding is an unsufferable thing of this age.
It’s okay if they want to teach 10 years old kids how to use skills and items, but i believe that that’s just enough handholding.
My fun is doing one quest here, another one there on the open field, then after a few hours, reaching a new city and doing three or four quests there, restocking and then continuing with my own journey exploring the world and looking for stronger monsters who might or might not drop the stuff i could use.
Remember how was that?
Damn, now the games tell me where to kill, where should i walk, and who should i talk to.
Not to mention that the story is thrown into your face. That’s too agressive for me, i prefer to research on my own, you know, just like in Dark Souls or Skyrim; yes, you had a little story here and there, slightly presenting you the environment, but if you really care about the story, read the books in town, check carefully the items’ information and talk to NPCs (an option like “tell me about this place”, and such).
Not straying too far away from the topic; here is my opinion:
Grind > Quest.
Not that i love to beat the same enemies during a month, but i just hate quest based progression on MMORPGs, i want a reason to explore, go on my own without feeling that i’ll fall behind for doing so, encourage people to explore, not just every corner of maps, but also getting away from your themepark for two hours.
On grinding based progression, you have to find a suitable place, you don’t start at your typical grinding spot and stay there for a week or two. You start experiencing places by yourself; monsters attributes, researching biomes and what you can do, and when you are aware of your weaknesses and virtues, you then search for a perfect grinding spot, but that won’t happen until mid-game.
On early stages you are all around easy monsters that everyone can beat (pretty much like every other MMORPG at all stages) the thing is that you have to look around, you know, play, explore, research.
Now, let’s say you can’t take the combat system, then explore and look for “hidden” quests in towns, do the deliveries, the hunts and stuff. The thing is that to me, quests shouldn’t be easy, and shouldn’t end that fast.
It’s okay if one or two quests give you good items and money, but if almost every quest does that, and you can complete them in less than two minutes, we have a problem.
Everyone wants to progress quickly, so if quests rewards are broken, everyone will do them.
I LOVE my freedom, but i won’t fall behind of the rest ignoring all the phat l00t that quests give, i’ll end up doing them for the rewards, and my freedom and exploration will disappear.
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YES! THIS! Spot on, mate.
You know, aside from some main quests, the game doesn’t force you to do quests. If you want to do grind leveling, you’re free do to that. I’ve seen many parties just grinding and ignoring quests.
Did you actually read what ryula2 had to say? I’ll quote him/her for you:
Grinding and being left behind in terms of character progression is not a valid option.
The games at 3x rates right now and you can just barely level off quests alone. Obviously this won’t be possible on 1x rates.
On the other hand when the xp rates of mobs go down but xp cards stay the same there will be even more incentive to do every quest possible.
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. You don’t like quests, so you want to have the game on your way? Many people actually like to do quests, so their wish must be ignored?
The best solution is to add more grinding spots and let grinding lovers do their grind and in other hand, quests lovers do their quests. Simple as that.
It’s an absurd grindind lovers want to force people to like grinding like them… Don’t do that, please. You guys are like a spoiled child.
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As i said before, quest are alright, but the rewards are quite stunning if we compare the time it takes to complete them with the rewards we get.
Yeah, i can pretty much farm on my own for 15’ and get a piece of equipment or two.
Or i could do a few quests in the same amount of time, i kill the mobs i would of kill anyways, get the same loot, and also an incredible reward that surpass the drops (EXP Cards, the equipment i actually need, an improved weapon or gems)
So well, taking quest into consideration, they are the best way to progress. Beat easy monsters for about 20-40 seconds, click on the free teleport, and there you go, you have a nice piece of equipment and a few EXP Cards!
I’m not saying that everyone should grind. I’m saying that the rewards are too much for the amount of effort it takes for complete the quests.
Have you tried Dragon’s Dogma Online? They have quest too, most of them are daily. They are used to progress into building a better relationship with the town from where you take them.
Those quest indeed are the only way to progress, but i don’t have a problem with those, because the reward is random. You get a few coins, and one or two random rewards, those could be potions, equipment, jewelry, or stuff needed for equipment improvement. Most of the time you get antidotes or low quality potions.
Not to mention that those quest can be quite difficult, on mid-game, most of them are about beating medium sized enemies in groups, and then a big one.
(Note: the size matters on that game, since a big enemy can pretty much beat you with two attacks)
So, where am i going?
In my opinion, difficult quests with small rewards are the way to go. You pretty much need a group to face the large enemies, so you can’t really do those quests alone unless you know what you are doing. And even if you are quite a good player and do it on your own, you’ll take around 10-30 minutes to complete one of them. Only to get some average money and MAYBE, stuff you could use, like a piece of equipment or a few potions.
There is a balance there, if you love quests, you’ll do them no matter what the reward is. If you need an extra reason to kill monsters, there you have it. If you need a reason to group up, there you have it too, you can get more quests done in less time. Thus, improving quickly, without the feeling of “forcefully grinding quests”, which is a feeling i have in most MMORPGs.
I believe most games should encourage a balance like that between the grind and the quests, DDO team reached it by having small rewards for difficult quests.
Again, forcing the grind or the questing won’t do any good, there should be a balance.
(I’m comparing it with DDO because so far, it’s the only MMO of this age on which I didn’t feel like if the things were thrown in my face. Also, i know those are different games, this is an MMORPG, and DDO is an Instance-based Action MMO, but i’m only comparing the progression system. Which is the topic here.)
Well, the thing is quests aren’t broken in this game. I know friends that aren’t used to grind games, so they just do quest, you know? A quest tells to kill 15 of a specefic monster, they go there and kill exactly 15 and go back to complete the quests. They don’t grind a little. And you know what happens? They are extremely low level to do main quests or progress in the game.
On this game, if you want to progress in a normal way, you have to do both grind and quests, in a moderate way. Which is good, in my opinion.
But hey, another good solution for grind lovers is to add some really good loots for mobs (with low rate chance, obviously), so they’ll have more chance to become rich or strong early or something like that. Grind lovers have more chance to kill a blue mob too, because they’re constantly fixed on a spot. Have you seen how much EXP a blue mob can give? It’s monstruous. Better than 30~40 exp cards, really.
Anyway, I think the best IMC can do is balance between grind and quest, just like that. If they go to a pure grind game, they will lose too many players. And if they do the opposite, the same will happen.
It’s not related to this discussion, but you know, this kind of attitude really pisses me off. People think they are the owners and want the game to be the way they want and whoever don’t like it, just leave. Seriously? Why can’t we have a really big and good community? Why people wants to kick another players? Don’t make any sense.
Well, I won’t say I know everyone’s opinions, because I actually think gaining levels are not the most important thing in games… But when I’m playing Tree of Savior, I think this is a RPG like offline RPGs, and this makes it good.
After many years playing Ragnarök Online and Fly for Fun I can’t say I know their stories. After some days of playing, most of people here who are playing yet know “the first revelation” story part. And I love it.
As @lesrrais266 mentioned, there many people who thinks they own the game. This does not piss me off because I’m happy with the game, and I don’t care much about the others.
(Almost forgot to mention that how can everyone grind with low level like 0~100 in a game which has + Lv. 200 level cap?)
The more I mess with the game and get farther in it, the more I think people are just a bit oblivious to the fact that the main quest line doesn’t even cover every map or anything. There’s a lot of unused maps for the main quest line, and honestly I think that’s fine. You’re given something to do but you don’t have to do it, or exclusively do it. You can get sidetracked around level 70 or so and start doing other maps that are unrelated to the main quest line, and I think that’s pretty good.
Really, the main quest line’s “You only have this one option to do” thing only applies for the first 65 or so levels, and given that the game’s theoretical cap is something like 600, I’d say that’s pretty good. That means that less than around 1/9th of the game’s level duration is ham-fisted linearity.
Also, the map’s pretty hilariously laid out, as someone else mentioned. Being able to walk into a level 69 area right from Klaipeda demonstrates that pretty well. Fairly non-linear map layout in terms of level placement, anyways.
As far as “grinding is worse than questing!” goes, I think that’s probably intentional and it’s probably good, as quests are in limited supply but grinding is theoretically infinite. There’s a finite supply of quest-given exp, so it makes sense for what there is to be better time efficiency. Aside from that, the exp penalty for fighting something too high level could use some looking at, though. There’s no good sense in punishing you for fighting something outside your “level range” if you can kill it. What should deter people is the amount of time if they lack the right stuff to do it, not the piddly reward for it.
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This is the reason why most of MMORPG failed in the last years. Gravity is itself an example as it tried to copy this bullshit WoW quest system into both failed RO 2 projects. Farming for rare items would be far more exciting than quest grinding, as these are also totally mechanic and players don’t need to think about anything, just follow those dumb quests, which history will become irrelevant. The gaming society is saturated with this leveling system, and TOS should be more RO likely, or better in that sense.
Unless you are in groups, can farm unique and valuable items that only those monster drops and high lvl players search for, or use its basic drops to complete side quests.
Yup thats why party quest was added. Grinders can do party quest and soloer can do regular quest. Although at launch everyone will have to grind with xp being normal and not 3x like beta.