I do think the exp is fine. It would also be okay if they raise it up a little higher.
I think hidden quest be fun, but that comes in kinda later when maps spreed out doesnāt really work in the lower lvl most people experience coz its just too linear at the early lvl. Map doesnāt really open up until later and too many people stuck at the early lvl. Which is why grinding at early lvl sucks as lack of maps means too much KSing.
Isnāt there nothing but āthe grindā to this game? Why would you want to make it shorter? Thatās essentially just making the entire game shorter.
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Then why not JUST play the game and enjoy content? Why must it be quest before you play it?
You want soccer? Sure, I donāt mind wanting something like that, but donāt make it a quest, just leave it there and if anyone want to play they can play.
āBut I get it. You just canāt bring yourself to move without someone else telling you what to do. Programmed and all that.ā
Point taken.
What can we do to alleviate the boring grind in early levels? To try and take leveling off their minds, besides chatting in places?
Iāll say it now, this is not some sort of attack. I am genuinely interested in ideas.
im at a point where i say no one who keep trying to defend ācasualsā in this thread is a casual to begin with if you have enough time to write ur damn opinion 100 times here and keep trying to defend it than sir you have enough time to play longer than 1 hour a day.
@Mexxron well the solution is to not have such a grind at early game, this discussion honestly been really dumb. What most people wanted was simply for the early game to not be so damn grindy as early game grind sucks as you don;t have the gear or skill to make grinding fun. Allow people to reach mid rank 3 or early rank 4 before the grind kicks in and most of the problem is solved, the point is simple the grind wall kick in way too early before people get the tools to make grind enjoyable. But then you got all these people that keep trying to defend the grind like grinding hours at rank 2 for a lvl is remotely fun (if you think just spamming auto attack while grinding is fun then I can make a game you think is the most amazing thing ever in under 1hr.)
@rofldat making a huge grind wall early is asking for people to quit, your suppose to build a decent curve to let people get used to the grind. Having grind wall later means by time people reach 100 they are invested, they will keep going because they are invested. Reason why people still play some mmorpgs years later when its not good or fun any more is because they are invested, Making it really annoying early on just make it all that easier to quit, they be like o this is way too grind Iām not play this rather than o man Iām almost rank 5 gotta squeeze in a bit more time today to grind and lvl up.
Well we are here now in a discussion for ideas. Maybe this needs a new thread as the thread title itself harbors negative feelings among the people.
@Mexxron I mean people have suggested pretty much all the reasonable solution however its all drowned out here and I honestly donāt think at this point making other post would do much good. As long as the grind wall starts later in the game past 100 then should be fine, grind is just such an issue early lvl due to lack of skill, item and grind spots as early game the maps are linear as lvl goes up where higher lvl the there multiple maps and depending on your class there different spot where you grind best at. To be honest this whole debate is pretty pointless has IMC has an idea on what the rate will be anyways we all just debating our ideal on the game rather than any pracitical meaning lol
You donāt, or rather I donāt think you should.
The grind is part of the game, for finding recipes/rare equipments/gathering materials for crafting, etc.
Unless the player change his/her point of view to accept that this gameās reward does not come from quest, but from personal goal, then it wonāt really matter how long you delay the grind.
Take my actual experience for example. I found recipe for Goat Horn, a helmet piece so thereās no stat benefit, and it requires 86 Panto Horns to craft.
Some might choose to sell the recipe on market.
Some wonāt bother and just straight sell it to NPC.
Me, and some others, choose to craft it. (I personally hunt all the 86 horns, and as a result get a few level while doing so)
And some who found this recipe will realize Panto Horn can be sold on market for the people who want to craft the recipe, giving them the option of selling any horn they find on market for higher profit than selling them to NPC.
The point is that even if all the players experience the same event (recipe drop), the reaction differs (sell to NPC, sell on market, craft), but each of those actions satisfies the person. A quest with specific action required/specific reward will not have such effect.
Itās probably a niche mindset in this era, but Iām pretty sure ToS is a niche game aiming for that crowd anyway.
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It is part of it, but it doesnāt mean it must just be grinding.
Also, you know one reason why I am against a linear way of grinding? Because it is the easiest to bot. It is also the best motivation to bot.
250+ comments - I think this thread surpassed the typical casual level.
Hard to judge the exp when the game isnāt done. Or what content we will have up to for official? I may have missed that memo if itās known though.
Im not sure very many people think about itā¦ but
This game has 10 ranks in total. IMCgames even said that in the past.
Most people got a taste of 3 ranks and a half. to rank 4. Which is about level 80.
Level 80 in a week is the most dedicated play. Now think about this. This is just rank 4. out of 10. That means, rank 6 is going to be around lv100-200. Rank 10. Is going to be in the 350s+. I say the EXP was fairish during this beta test I experienced. I got to level 64 in that entire time. And the last day and a half i got demotivated knowing my character was going to be deleted. Regardless. It either could be improved a smich, due to the lack of diverse leveling spots. Or more adequate leveling areas should be opened or made. Changing spawn rates, or whatever. Or diversifying classes to use diverse weapons because some classes have a hard time fighting certain mobs due to elemental properties and damage types(slash, stab, blunt).
There was very few places to actually level other then a few areas at certain levels. There is apparently 3 leveling curves while playing ToS that people were talking about.
The first curve is 1-46. After 46 it becomes easy up until 60ish. Then startings getting a bit more hard. Taking into a count that there is 10 ranks, and that there will be 400 levels. Speed is a big deal, and not a lot of people want to grind. Specially when there is a limited amount of areas to level. And thats a reason why youd want to either increase exp gain per monster, or adjust monster spawns and exp gain in certain areas so people would spread out when leveling.
I think its pretty evident there is is some number imbalances in ToS not only with skills and classes, but also with exp and spawn population. I dont know if they should change the exp gained but definitely change spawn rates so that people dont fight over areas and there is not a excessive need for channel switching. I dont want to grind all the time either, but i still do want it as an option to level if i dont wanna do dungeons or whatever.
I dont think its fair to cater to hardcore players. Im not really casual either. Im kind of a moderate. But still. You cant trivialize casual players just because they dont have the privilege of playing as much as a hardcore. //shrug
Thanks for your input!
Not trivialiazing casuls just stating the game itself has mechanics Made for people that grindā¦ want money? need to grindā¦ Want to craft an item? you need to grindā¦ if you can get past this simplistic and straightforward game mechanicsā¦ i Think this isnāt the game for you. iām not saying the game doesnāt 've itās problems with the spawns their rate and positioning even with the maps some maps i actually blazed through because how short itās content was and this is really badā¦ content shouldnāt ever be a One time thingā¦ time bosses are a problem tooā¦
but you donāt see this discussions coming from player that stopped at level 30 because āthe game has too much grindāā¦ this is the reasoning behind my post.
Here is the thing, when there is to much grinding it becomes very repetitive, and replay value diminishes. It may cater to you, but it doesnt hurt to have a variety of content that jumps out of the grind repetitiveness. Specially for an MMORPG. MMOs need variety. Not strict one track mind mentalities.
Tree of Savior, happens to have instances too. And questing. I dont know if the game was āmade for grindingā because no intent was clearly established. Its just what players assumed.
My point Im making is to having variety doesnt hurt. And to have content that a hardcore player can mostly take advantage of is not very fair, which grinding happens to be that. And doesnt promote more people to play and join a community. You can say āThis mmorpg is this wayā because each MMO definitely has its own thing, but its a world, a social world. And worlds have variety.
Im not saying that it shouldnt have grind aspects. But it probably should be placed in a way where it doesnt feel tedious or excessive or problematic. Have other things as options too. It may not be a problem now around rank 4. But i can see it maybe potentially getting pretty bad at higher levels? But yaknow, no one experienced Rank 6+ content.
yeah i want variety too iām not against thatā¦ and the game tries to be social tooā¦ and you can freely make frienships and talk and trade stuff while grinding like i did and it doesnāt break the flow of the game but that doesnāt change that the content really needs a reworkā¦ and that should be the discussion most players i met that got past 60 had no problems with their life and playing the game ā¦ they didnāt felt that Wall of grind some people claim and iām talking about guys with wives and kidsā¦
Yea, I know that there was quite a few people who were left stumped around lv30.
I think its pretty interesting because I noticed that if you dont meet the required level to do the story quest, it just vanishes at the last NPC you do it at until you reach the required level.
Then there was an issue where there wasnt alot of places to grind because parties were filling up channels and spots people would mostly grind. Which is such a hassle. Like around level 55, the area where people would grind because a bit inadequate. And the level 55 zones didnt have good enough spawn rates or the mobs would give an oddly low amount of exp.
I didnt really necessarily have a problem grinding, it was more of a gear deficiency. Or/and over populated grindign spots.
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I think the thread with its title is now detrimental to any productive discussion about game content and grind variety. Can this one die off now?