It’s an essential skill, the up time is more important than the healing.
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Well heal tiles at rank 3 have a similar effect that can scale and brings a stronger upfront heal. (Heal: Linger)
Aukuras does not have a gap. You can use the attribute (Goddess of Fire), place Aukuras down, then turn off the attribute and you will keep both the heal and the flat damage increase, as well as the cd of 30 secs. The decrease 10 sec duration no longer affects it. Turn it back on before you use it again, rinse and repeat, and you have 100% uptime of Aukuras. Scaling heal and scaling damage increase.
Yes you do and I understand what you are getting at, but like stated above there’s other ways of achieving the same sustain healing, but better.
Hense why I don’t understand everyones “problem” with Druid’s Chortasmata. Heck, I barely see anybody who grabs druid 1 or 2 use it (religiously).
The heal of Chortasmata only really has a profound effect on summons. Them zombies tank the world when standing on that grass(Small exageration, unless large zombie).
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I can give you a reason, considering we get the Rank update together with level cap again [Rank 11]:
Given our players have the possibility to get to 500+ CON[via Linkers Life Line], we can assume a recovery value of Chortasmata for a Velcoffer party of about 2-2,5k HP per tick.
At level 420, Velcoffer and all current raid bosses will suffer a penalty on their attack due to the level difference being over 50, so the damage dealt to people will become pretty much nothing compared to the amount of HP you recover over time, given you have 50% uptime of invulnerability with Sterea Troph.
This means Rank 11/level 420 cap will probably have Druid as main healer, since it adds more support and better damage than Kabbalist builds, at least unless Kabbalists are able to go hybrid damage dealers[this will hold true to Plague Doctors,too, even with the higher uptime/downtime ratio].
The other basic reason is because Chortasmata heals and deals damage. Clerics don’t have any other recovery skills except Heal that can deal damage, and Heal is either damage or recovery,
while Chortasmata does both at the same time. And Chortasmata is required for Carnivory anyway, so all Druids have it regardless of Circle.
Also, Druids have access to both Heal/Aukuras/Mass Heal and Chortasmata without having to sacrifice any additional Ranks for it.
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@streamside Exactly. I 100% agree with your point. In the long run, the current druid might break the balance of cleric builds in the game.
Hense why I don’t understand everyones “problem” with Druid’s Chortasmata.
The fact that “everyone” / the majority have problem with Chortasmata indicates that there is a problem. I too also have Druid in my cleric class, and I can clearly tell that the current druid is a bit stronger than it should be.
Anyways… whatever will be, will be.
Please refer to this where I said:
Do you think at the point where I am +60 levels over Velcoffer content, have upgraded gear for that level range (420), that Velcoffer is suppose to be “relevant” or medium to hard difficulty?
Let’s say this scenario was used now or before we had rank 10. Congrats you went from a 1k heal tick per second to about 2k heal per second. Guess what… You are still dying in medium to hard difficult content if you are not overgeared, or built for ridiculous survivability.
So if someone is invulnerable for 15 seconds (max Stereotroph) and they heal for 2.5k a second (using your numbers), that would equal a healing amount of 37,500 hp.
Your about to die and the aforementioned happens. The 15 sec invulnerability is now over. You instantly get hit for 15-30k damage. You are now in the same situation you were before the 15 seconds of invulnerability. You still have another 15 seconds before you can use Stereotroph. What do you do?
Obviously you would use your other stronger heals. But why didn’t you do that before when you had the 15 seconds of invulnerability, instead of waiting for this kind of bad situation? Well:
- You’re a bad healer.
- You overestimate the heal of Chortasmata.
- You underestimated the situation at hand.
- You wanted to live 17 seconds longer before dying.
What? 
Yes Druid will bring better damage, but support? Please enlighten me on the “better” support that Druid will bring compared to Kabbalist and Plague Doctor?
This was already stated, and I agree. Though Chortasmata is far weaker in terms of healing.
Same can be said for any rank in the Cleric class, so this is irrelevant. Even other classes outside of Cleric can just buy an Aukuras scroll.
Sorry, I said everyone, but what I actually meant was the players that don’t main Druid in medium to high level content.
Hop on down to any Druid forums on KToS or ToS and let me know what you find on Chortasmata. My guess is the majority of things you find on those posts will be about Lycanthropy/Awoo or Transform.
It’s easy to say the grass is greener on the other side, till you’re on the other side. (HA! A grass pun 
)
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I have level 100 heal and level 60 Chortasmata, along with 600+ CON and I think 200+ SPR. I use Large Insect transformation and I can say Heal is much better than Chortasmata in terms of healing.
I heal about 4k per tick with Chortasmata, and like 50kish (It’s a guess based on how many tiles I use) with a heal tile.
I don’t think that Chortasmata even comes close to competing with heal, and not to mention, the best form of healing in the game is still potions. It’s expensive because those 50% ones can be used for costumes, but the 20% ones are readily available, and the alchemist ones already beat Cleric 1 heal if you don’t have SPR or INT
Compared to Cleric Heal, Potions, and probably even the Kabba and Priest heals (Although I have very little experience with those) Druids healing is nonexistent.
It’s really strong for summons! Because it doesn’t have a limit for how many it can heal, but that’s it’s only strength that is even notable compared to any other healing, it can heal a lot of things, but other heals have more limits. In terms of heal Power there is no contest. Druid is at the bottom.
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Rank 1 Base
Rank 2-7 Actual system with 2 new job per rank or other ideas gave by the community
Rank 8-10 All classes
Rank 11-12 All classes except rank 8 classes, master circle for R7 classes and below.
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This, brothers, this.
I would say that this is more of a problem with other classes just not being nearly as good as Druid3 or Falc3, or them being way too good.
Nothing really holds much of a candle to them, because they were redesigned to be actually good, to fit their own niche, or to at least make the classes themselves ““playable””.
Abit off-topic, but these classes are why I personally disliked the idea of master classes (if it took an extra rank), because you have a slew of fun early classes which would require 4 ranks, over late stuff like Falc, Druid, and WL that only require 3, and will still probably wind up performing better anyway.
I agree with you that limitations breed creativity, but sadly most of the creative options are just still largely overshadowed, at least for Swordies, Archers, and to a lesser extent, Wizards. Clerics have fairly fine classes for the most part with just some hiccups. Druid3 just sticks out like a sore thumb because it was really over-buffed imo.
I think there are still a lot of earlier classes needing buffs or complete heavy redesigns before we ever stop seeing Falc and Druid meta, regardless of if r11 happens or not.
I hope that r10 is the last rank, and that they add more attributes for ranks 1-7 and r8 hidden classes.
Hiccups? Clerics are the worst roster of all of the Class trees. Most of them don’t even matter.
The diversity in Cleric builds is really low, simply because a lot of Classes are bad at C1, C2 or even C3.
And that’s the Majority.
How many Pardoner C3s do you actually see in active gameplay? How many Paladins? How many Monks?
How many Oracles? How many Dievdirbyses? How many Bokors? How many Plague Doctors?
Most Clerics just do Cleric2>x>x>x>Druid2/3>Kabbalist3/Exorcist2/3/Zealot2/3/Inquisitor2/3.
Rank 3-7 are mostly fillers that are chosen based on the fact of how they support the rest of the build (e.g. Krivis C3 to prolong Zealot buffs with Melstis, Paladin C3 to boost Inquisitors damage, Druid C3 to boost Exorcists damage, Taoist to finish a Krivis build).
There are very few incentives to use the majority of the Classes at all (simply because the majority of them are not valid for gameplay, or at least the combination does not benefit you in any way).
The reason why I say Cleric is off the worst is because even though you are not weapon locked like Swordsman and Archer, there is little to no incentive to choose certain Classes at all.
This doesn’t mean that the problem on the other trees shouldn’t be addressed accordingly, but this shows how bad the situation actually is. All we have is meta-shifting every time they “balance” some Classes to be the new meta.
Wizard tree was reworked as a bulk and has thus the least problems, but still a lot of the Classes simply can’t hold their grounds against the prevalence of buffers or damage dealers[basically Linker, Thaumaturge or Elementalist] in the Ranks 4-7, which makes the choice between certain builds merely a choice between less or more damage/support.
In fact, people even shun the idea of going hybrid now for the most parts (except maybe the Linker one) and either build full damage or full support Wizards. There goes the build freedom out of the window.
Another reason which enforces this is mainly the concern for DPS.
Current content has a lot of pressure on the players due to time limitation, entry restriction, party number limit, inability to utilize a lot of other features (e.g. the inability to utilize Squire camp inside of raids/dungeons/Velcoffer, no shops allowed inside, a lot of skills being trashed by mechanics like ground destruction while others are exempted,etc.).
When you compare it to open field fights against Demon Lords, where you can utilize the majority of quirks/mechanics this game has to offer, build diversity really starts to shine.
More debuffs = faster kills, more helpful mechanics = less deaths/less frustrations.
You can bring up to 100 people to the fight, which is a completely different level than your limitation to just 5, which have to be carefully selected, because otherwise you won’t make it in time with the kills.
This is something the developers should take into consideration when planning for Rank 11- and/or endgame content, to get rid of more limitations and have people play their game like they want to while having fun (as this should be the ultimate goal for any game developer).
This would be horrible because of all of the things I’ve mentioned before.
Unless they introduce a new, different system where you can upgrade your lower-Rank Classes further (basically pseudo Ranks for Rank 2-7 Classes), there is little to no incentive to even consider a sub-optimal build with this mentality, as the game caters meta quite heavily.
That’s because currently, the game caters the sweet spot for Rank 5 and Rank 6 Classes (they can advance to Circle 2 and Circle 3 of Rank 8 Classes respectively), but Rank 7 Classes are pretty much left with only 1 extra Rank.
Why not allow people to actually choose with Rank 11 to whether go Rank6 C3>Rank8 C3, Rank7 C3>Rank6 C3 or Rank7 C3>Rank8 C2?
There is a lot of potential variety here that people can exploit.
With the current setting, we are actually trimming down on Rank 7 Classes, because they are in the middle, so they can’t really do anything good at all. If they go C3, they can’t go Rank 6 C3 (which is a problem if you look at how good some of them are) and they also can’t go Rank 8 C2 (which is another sweet spot), leaving them pretty much with a bad build in the end.
I actually want to see this play out, be it Necro3>Warlock3 as a dark themed summoner, Druid3>Zealot3 as a burning werewolf or Dragoon3>Retiarius2 as a net-wielding spear attacker.
Rank 11 will be the actual breaking point of the game in many ways, and it will decide the future of TOS as a whole. They can’t go on with the current formula forever, that’s for sure, but it needs to address the issues people have with the game.
IMC simply can’t abandon Rank 7 Classes in the middle of nowhere, after going so far to “buff” them, that’s wrong.
This is why I think that the next Rank will come no matter what. Maybe we will have a developers blog by the end of the year to show us what the developers are thinking to do and which direction they will head on afterwards.
That’s because people need to know.
Nexon invested a lot of money, they are running a business here.
Nothing good will come out of running it into a wall after investing several years into the development of TOS.
2 Likes
honestly no past 10, but more of the unreleased classes for rank8, and newer things to do in town (remember when we had card playing?), more minigames for town that are actually fun, reworking missions, also honestly i think warping to town should be free like a button on the screen that anyone can select from Klaip-Fedi-Orsha
It’s not a good and strong argument. There are plenty of non-meta builds that are powerful if not greater than meta builds. It’s not because a class is not played that it automatically sucks. I personally picked Paladin and Monk (each for one different build) for Two Handed mace attribute. In other words you can’t judge if something is bad or not just because there are tons of sheep following the trend. And what’s the point of your comparison with Pardoner C3 which is an afk shop necessary for the active gameplay of active players ???
Sorry… do what now?
The worst roster is the one that’s almost always capable of doing what other classes can do, just as well? …And then some? That’s a wild take, there.
I’ll admit Pally, Oracle, Diev, and Pardoners are few and far between. But that does not mean they’re bad in comparison to Swordies, Archers, or Wizards standards.
Diev still has incredible offensive/defensive support capabilities. CDR is amazing even on it’s own.
Paladin has a new TH mace attribute for aoe ratio, which is the one thing that holds physical classes back in this game, in a world where magic-users can crap a giant circle/hitbox on the ground and hit everything in the room.
Saying Bokor is bad is silly, as it offers an amazing defense reduction skill for combating defense bloat, and honestly the holy grail in this game: move speed. PD is also still, very amazing as always.
Sure, Pardoner and Oracle need reworks to make them viable in the field. There’s still a lot of classes that do. And I’m fully convinced that Monk and plenty of other classes from any tree don’t have “their” r8 class yet.
But it goes to show, even the poorest Cleric options have something to offer you or your r8 option, and it offers it very well OR better than another class tree can offer theirs respectively.
You act as if this isn’t the norm nowadays for every class tree… most early classes are like this. They offer your r8 something it may need, a general buff to everything you might have, or filler skills. C1, C2, C3 issues are all the same.
Archers have Quarrel3 as just a RS meme, serving very little other purpose as tanking classes in ToS operate very poorly, or operate solely on CC skills alone.
Hunter has been dead, with no changes in sight.
Sapper is Broom3 and nothing else.
Scout offers only Cloak and Distortion.
Rogue, while very effective for crits, offers very little else.
Highlander offers Skyliner, and various filler you probably won’t use due to a current issue of hotbar bloat.
Barbarian. It’s buffs are admittedly pretty good, but it still feels lacking due to being overshadowed.
Cataphract is god awful and suffers from a lot of problems.
As for Wizard, it does have the least problems like this. Classes do feel moderately complete. Though, I’d still contest that more could be done to make Cryo, Chrono, and Alchemist better than they are now, even if they are good.
Sorc is specifically the worst of this issue for Wizard, I’d say.
For 1 circle, you can have Sorc1 and get the most ridiculous 1-circle wonder class I’ve ever seen in my life of playing this game. A giant walking Peltasta that hits like a truck, and you don’t even really lose anything going full Spr with Enchant Armor’s Con buff.
I’m not talking about the rest of Wizard’s classes though, because this reply really wasn’t warranted, or worth my time to begin with.
I predict a dev blog about next year plan at the end of December or a little earlier. While i would love to see totally new R8 or lower rank classes (like a BladeDancer for dualwielding, or a cleric that prioritize shields, a mounted twohanded bow archer, Mimic as a new hidden mage, etc), i also love to get the existing classes to be reworked and rebalanced: Master Circle is a great idea for strengthening lower rank classes, even if it means to get C3+1 just for 1 job.Devs did rebalancing while working on new classes this year too, so i dont think it will be different for the next cap. I am really curious what comes next in terms of class system. 
That was not an argument at all. It was a reference to what gameplay reality looks like.
Reality looks as if the build variety went downhill from Rank 7 onwards because the Classes were no longer viable for game content.
Some Classes got reworked/changed/overhauled, but the popularity boost was mostly short-lived.
Rank 9 made it clear that most Rank 7 and below skills simply cannot help you through harder content (unless they are strong buffs/debuffs that help with Rank 8+ skills), which is why everyone began a run on Rank 8 Classes to save their builds.
Accordingly, most of the previous Rank choices were also changed, to match the new Rank 8 Class (e.g. Krivis for Zealot/Taoist, Paladin for Inquisitor or Sadhu/Druid for Exorcist).
yeah, it is the worst roster for most parts.
Classes are now mostly chosen, as I stated above, to match Rank 8 Classes needs, so their damage is boosted. There is basically no freedom of choice if you want a semi-capable character. That’s because most combinations simply aren’t as effective as others (there is always one combination that is far superior in comparison to the others).
This doesn’t mean that every individual Class by itself is bad. They simply don’t matter that much in later gameplay, which is why they are not used at all.
Swordsman and Archer standards are completely different, simply because of the weapon/sub-weapon issue.
I can agree on the fact that some Archer Classes don’t really have an active use (mainly Hunter, because the companion system is one of the worst if not the worst feature of the entire game, and Scout, because invisibility and attack range don’t really matter as ingame mechanics), but Archer isn’t supposed to be that diverse anyway.
Most of the Classes are simply damage dealers, so their lacking success is simply due to them being nearly useless when it comes to dealing damage on higher content (an issue most of the lower-Ranked Classes face, regardless of Class tree).
I never sad that Bokor is really bad[in fact it’s pretty powerful and useful for daily quests and challenge mode]. I just stated that the Class doesn’t matter. That’s why it disappeared into nowhere, similarly to Dievdirbys. That’s because
- “endgame” bosses are mostly dark property, so you deal less damage with all of your skills
- Damballa is unreliable for bossing damage because zombies spawned through any means don’t have enough defence and HP to be used frequently;
It’s also hard to resupply, given the 5 seconds CD time on capsules, and considering the fact that bosses rarely spawn mobs, so utilizing Zombify to resupply is also out of the question - Samediveve doesn’t really matter for any content at all, it’s just a utility skill that requires at least 2 Ranks into Bokor to learn
- Bokor as a summoner is just aweful, it requires way too many skillpoints and equipment investment to be viable at all [again, zombie HP and defence are creating a nightmare]
- Hexing, while being a really great debuff, has a horrible scaling per skilllevel and a horrible AoE,
so most Bokors will not bother upping it beyond level 10 and rather put their skillpoints into other skills
Still didn’t save it, though. You basically need 4 Ranks to be viable [Diev C3+Miko], otherwise people will just take C1 for the CD reduction and SP cost reduction.
That was enough for many people to not even consider Diev on their character, even if it is a support build.
Diev C3 became extinct outside of snowflakes like Diev3>Miko>Zealot.
The same happened to Bokor C3, it just exists in a few very specific builds.
That’s only because Cleric Classes are not all about damage. The Archer rework showcased that it also works with other Class trees [Ranger&Wugushi e.g.] as long as they have useful buffs/debuffs.
Peltasta rework e.g. was one of the most beneficial for every Class post Rank 3, as you can always grab Peltasta C2 for +100% defence bonus, 20% damage reduction and a provocation skill that makes it easy to group and destroy monsters.
And still, despite the fact that there is something they offer[i.e. Cleric Classes], most of them don’t appear in builds anymore.
Question is, if Cleric had basic access to two-handed mace like Wizard has basic access to staff, would anyone ever choose that Class(except for Inquisitors and maybe a few Zealots)?
Pyromancer e.g. has a good Class attribute for staffs, but no-one is using Pyromancer anymore (elememes could’ve gotten it to boost their fire skill damage e.g.), except for some snowflakes and/or Enchanters (who want to grab the Enchant Fire buff).
If two-handed mace was free from Rank 1, I bet that Paladin C1/Monk C1 would simply disappear from a lot of builds. It’s the same as the convenience of C1 Kabbalist to refill SP with Ein Sof, if other ways would appear, no-one would consider Kabbalist C1 anymore.
All these C1 builds don’t do the Class any grace. It just means that the Class isn’t worth sacrificing more Ranks for. It’s a choice of convenience.
Actually, this is not true for the majority of Classes in the Cleric tree. In fact, their gameplay is completely different in many parts from what Rank 8 gameplay looks like.
There is no other builder Class except Dievdirbys, there is no other summoner Class except Bokor, there is no other DoT Class except Plague Doctor, there is no other skill-spam Class except Monk, there is no other overly defensive Class except Paladin, there is no other transformation Class except Druid, there is no other Class utilizing money except Pardoner, there is no other psychokinesis-based Class except Sadhu (who offers a unique gameplay with OOB), there is no other RNG-based Class except for Oracle.
Rank 8 Classes are all about damage dealing, even Taoist C3 became a damage dealer.
They don’t really offer unique features (the talisman system could’ve been more useful, but nowadays it’s just a consumable to drain silver for skill power) except for Zealot (which is mainly justified by lore as they strayed away from the normal Cleric path, similarly to how Soul Linkers stray away from the path of Teakwon Do in Ragnarok Online).
That’s why they are different, and can still be a different part of your characters identity (i.e. everyone will see that you’re a Bokor if you drag around a bunch of zombies, and everyone can see you playing as a Diev when building several statues on the battlefield).
This is the great thing that made me like TOS so much, as your identity doesn’t get lost by advancing throughout the Ranks.
You can represent many Classes throughout gameplay mechanics, Class costume, Class symbol, etc.
That’s also a reason why I play quite differently,depending on the situation,as my Class choices allow me to. Sometimes I use only Exorcist skills, sometimes only Bokor skills, and sometimes only Kabbalist skills.
Bokor and Kabbalist don’t offer anything to my Exorcist at all, but I still took them regardless to that matter.
The only choice I made for Exorcist is Cleric C3 so I have enough Heal & Divine Might for later contents.
If I made choices based on Exorcist, I would’ve taken Diev C1, Druid C3 and maybe Paladin C1[and of course Exorcist C3] and dumped Bokor and Kabbalist, as they don’t offer anything to Exorcist.
In fact, I would’ve chosen another Class if Exorcist wasn’t the only option for viable damage at Rank 8 for magic damage dealers.
To conclude, the current state of the game focuses too much on Rank 8+ content, so pre-Rank 7 Classes are pretty bad choices (unless they are re-balanced very recently like e.g. Druid ).
Rank 7 makes or breaks your build currently.
Rank 11 will change this, giving you an actual option on Rank 7, just as this Rank[i.e. Rank 10] gives you an actual option on Rank 6 (e.g. R6 C2> R7 C3 or R6 C3>R8 C2 or some rainbow/utility options).
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Hahaha, okay guy. Whatever you say.
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Never argue with the same guy who said cleric has the worst damage and the worst support.
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Are you even playing the game ? Or even read what we said about Pal/Monk 2H Mace attribute ? You’re already wrong on this part so let us doubt on your “reality”.
Your point ? You can’t take R8 classes before R8 so what is a run on Rank 8 ? And if what you’re saying is true why my PyroCryoEnchanter still use Cryo/Pyro skills for R10 content ? Both are R2 classes. Did you completly forget that every damaging skill in the game is now % damage based ? Yeh Elementalist, which is a R4 class is not made for end game content. Are you playing the game without Pardoner buffs or something like that ? Could explain why your “reality” feels more like you play this game on drugs.
A proof of why your “reality” is wrong, you’re clearly saying people changed for Krivis because of Taoist and Zealot but Krivis was in a really good state way before Rank8 release, and spread attribute of Zaibas was really bad (each target consuming one hit).
One thing is important to understand why your “reality” is totally wrong about Cleric. You compare classes between them while they belong to the same tree, and it doesn’t work in Tree of Savior for a tree like Cleric, because you can take all the classes into your build without restrictions. If you were talking about Archer, you could be right. If you avoided Pardoner3 in your build it’s certainly for a good reason, because this class is not made for active gameplay. What is wrong in this affirmation ?
Guys, lets get back on topic. We must focus on the important part, Monk Master Rank.
Give Rank 11 for Fencer3 Matador3 to happen, bring Master Rank for Rank 4 and Rank 5 classes, make Monk Master Rank for Monks, and Give Monks their Asura Strike.
Stop arguing on how OP clerics are in Tree of Clerics 
(Jk btw for those who can’t take a joke)
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