Tree of Savior Forum

Petition: Nerf Missile Hole. A single Rank should NOT make entire classes from Rank 1 to 8 useless

General Discussion
#325

Well these were some of the ideas I had in mind for certain classes.

  1. Missile hole can only block 5+skill level attacks
  2. Like missile hole, prophecy will follow suit.
  3. Bloodletting will only have between 30-40% uptime
  4. Gohei can only dispel buffs according to level
  5. Like Gohei, same will apply to PD’s dispel
  6. Spamming antidotes (greater than 3) will grant a debuff which will disallow pot usage for 30 seconds
  7. Status effects for certain skills will have a duration according to skill level.
  8. Counterspell’s uptime will be 3skill level, dispelling circles and count will be 2skill level

Only looking at this from a status defense perspective, as these are the ones that greatly decide the outcome of a battle.

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#326

I’ll do proper testing on next TBL sessions and post here the results \o

@Noxot in the skill info on files it have max level defined as 15 ;-;

@Jargs I think Counterspell is fine tho, it is only 30 seconds with 90s cooldown. But I don’t play as DPS Wizard. As an archer and kino I see it as fine because it’s a stationary, not sure on how it feels as being only DPS wizard against it.

#327

Counter spell from what I see as Oracle 3, makes it look as if you only need Oracle 1, so by changing both the uptime and the dispel effect of magic tiles, it would give a purpose to higher ranks of Oracle, much like the effect of prophecy itself. Most people grab on rank 1 as the uptime is generous. But if they are left with worry that the effect is gone, all that’s left is addressing insane damage.

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#328

aren’t cannoner, sapper and lancer able to break magic circles?
-edit-
Oh let’s not forget thaumaturge too! although he doesn’t break those…
-edit 2-

Hm I feel that by punishing duration or effect to people that already made their builds would be bad, perhaps add useful attributes per rank? like decreasd hp recovery time, I dunno, something pretty…

#329

Give missile hole some sort of penalty in PVP like maybe reduce 50% movement speed? what do you think. keep effects but give heavy penalty.

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#330

That would make you food to cataphract rushes

#331

So sage would have to think twice before spamming it like some no-brain skill, yeah.

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#332

I honestly think that the attribute that prevents dispelling friendly magic circle is moved to Circle C2, it isn’t a “all bad” thing while encourages anyone from getting Oracle C2 for the attribute.

@MagicOne I agree with some sort of penalty but Movement Speed reduction is simply too much. If you think about it, one smart change would be making anyone with Missile Hole (missile prevention) buff to take double damage from melee on the same way Levitation (melee prevention) makes you take double damage from Missile, but since Missile Hole applies to entire party, it still would feel broken that way (and annoying to party members, which doesn’t feel good).

The penalty shouldn’t be something too negative (since it applies to party), maybe something as receive more missile damage after hit count break (which also doesn’t sound good for any side).

#333

Changing any attribute or timing as it is now, would merit a rank reset. Imagine you’re playing something you really like or tailored for a certain thing and all of a sudden it’s not something you like or no longer does what you wanted it to, you’d need a change.

Instead, just add attributes to c2 and c3 specific ( and do it all around) so far, there’s only skills as rewards per circle, very few get an attribute.

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#334

If anything, the punishment would still be on higher ranking classes as they have far too many skills to optimize. Personally, I’d want higher ranks of Oracle to be buffed such that there is superiority over its lower ranks. However, this thread is more towards the overall nerfing of such ridiculous skills

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#335

If the devs idea of balancing this game is around not guaranteeing immunity, a rank reset would do little to nothing. The most you’ll seeing is someone changing from support to damage. Then when damage gets properly fixed, then they go back. An endless cycle. Rank reset when a new rank is out makes sense. But if devs clearly state their intent of changing from nearly infinite uptime to limited uptime, a rank reset would not be needed.

#336

I think you misunderstood, something reasonable is alrite.

But say you’ve got a rank just for counter spell counting it last for example 15 seconds, if all of a sudden because you’re a c1 and have been for the better part of a year, if those 15 seconds turn to 10, you’d probably be ok, but if they turn to say 5, well. man, I need a change. now my c1 does nothing.

#337

I’m sure reasonable would be in there. If counterspell was nerfed according to what I have set there, the cool down would be 60 seconds. So a maxed counterspell would have a reasonable downtime and not be optimized for number of people and tiles dispelled. Whereas a level 5 counterspell would sit close to roughly the same downtime as it were now.

30 seconds for 100 second cd with attribute
15 seconds for 70 second cd with attribute

Seems fair and also allows for fast paced matches so that you’re not limited to a waiting game

#338

Heh to be fair I’ve never seen counter spell as something that makes wizards powerless, sure. It DOES JUST THAT. but there are ways around it, destroying it, reversi. magnetic force. There’s just many ways to deal with it.

#339

From outside yes, but compare the counterspell of an Oracle 3 vs Oracle 1 and you’ll see where I’m coming from. IMC needs to balance classes within themselves first before going outside.

As for missile hole, that does way more damage to the game overall. Even with pain barrier, swordsman are still an easy kill. Try winning as a foot soldier, you’ll often find that their overall lack of mobility and cc is what costs them a match. Perhaps there should be a class and or rank where non-mounted swordies can temporarily close the distance without the need to run into a field of shadows, cc, and immunities.

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#340

Shinobi missed oportunity?

Even if counter spell lasted for initnity, granted the same limitation existed as they do now. it would be a matter of destroying the fort, capturing it (reversi) or dragging the fortified enemies out of their fort (magnetic force) also it doesn’t make them immune to phys atks. (were you able to counter spell counter spell?)

Missile hole on the other hand: well it cannot be dispelled (as of now), it can only be destroyed, there’s no dragging them out of it as they move with it.

#341

There’s Gohei, the ultimate buff destroyer. You probably missed that, and somewhat like counterspell, not immune to all physical attacks.

#342

Missile Hole is a Lv.3 buff that can’t be removed by Gohei (only Lv.1). As well Gohei cannot remove Bloodletting and Revenged Sevenfold (both Lv.3), for example.

Also, I’m not sure but I think it isn’t possible to Reversi Counterspell, @Composition, need to recheck.

#343

Really? I think I remember having counter spell reversed as it probably can’t defend itself. could be wrong though.

#344

Yup, I think so, but not sure. Need either to ask an oracle or test in-game, I’ll try to test later whenever I find a free oracle or thaum in game \o

On Gohei, I think it shouldn’t remove Counterspell, Safety Zone and other buffs that are ground based, doesn’t really make much sense, lol.