Tree of Savior Forum

(Personal Experience) About the viability of Swordsman classes late game in PvE and/or PvP

Class and Rank Swordsman
#100

They’re right though your full dex swordsman is gonna suck A$$ past a certain level, and i hope for your sake by full dex you don’t actually mean full dex and little str and con because not only will you have pi$$ poor crit damage, magic mob will shred your hp and you won’t ever be useful in any grinding party (which is the only way you level in late game). With so little hp, not having pelt will be the least of your problem.

But i’m sure you already know all this. Plenty of people who have gotten past 200, decently geared, have warned you about your build and its down to you to listen or not.

im a full dex sw3 cata2 lv160

i laugh at other pelt/hop/barb/corsair… cant tank cant dps just leech.

Possibly the most retarded thing I’ve heard in a while.
You do realize swashbucking increase the number of mobs you can aggro by one, right? And the usefulness of corsair is not in tanking but the buff it provides, right?

Further, do you even understand that 2 circles in swordsman don’t really give you a big damage increase over pelt cata because the only decent scaling dps-ish skills from swordsmen 2 and 3 is restrain and double slash, and restrain has a 120 second cd?

Finally, did you know Strength grow way faster than dex and a full str swordsman could have over 600 str by lvl 280 while a full dex swordsman will only have something like 300 dex? http://i.imgur.com/qbTGDgu.jpg

#101

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#102

Do what you want, but please refraining from spouting non sense like :

" i laugh at other pelt/hop/barb/corsair… cant tank cant dps just leech. "

because you honestly have no idea what you’re on about.

One look at the things you get from cookiecutter cata build and the things you get from swordsman 3 you’ll see which build has better kit:

Swordsman 3 gives you -

✓✓✓29 second pain barrier (very good defensive spell , but i doubt you maxed this since you wanna be a “dps swordsman”)

✓✓ Restrain (very good skill but pvp oriented. 40% chance to stun with long duration and even longer Cd, lower your hp and doesn’t provide extra damage. Slow is good but you already move faster than everyone else so i dont see how this is useful.)

X Thrust ( garbage. no one max this)

X Bash (garbage, with useless knockdown that cata already has a ton)

X Pommel strike ( lel useless skill)

X Gung ho and concentrate (both fall off very hard. I’m pretty sure you know this.)

✓✓ Double Slash ( only decent dps skill

meanwhile

Sw1 + Pelt 1 + Hop 1 gives you -

✓ 19 second pain barrier (Decent. 10 second shorter than sw3)

✓✓✓ Swashbuckling (increase max Hp, aoe taunt. Useful at all level.)

✓✓Manual C block (increase block rate, no mana cost. useful at all level)

✓ Guardian (increase defense and 18% evasion, lvl 1 only decrease damage by 14 but you still get evasion bonus. useful across all level. )

X Umbo Blow (15% chance to stun for 3 second. mediocre otherwise. Falls off)

✓✓✓ FInestra (+ 50 crit rate, block rate + 10%. cost only 17 evasion. Best spear skill hands down. except you only have lvl 5 max. Still decent.)

✓✓ Stabbing (crazy good for a c1 skill. Output equal damage as lvl 15 Earth Wave. Increase magic defense and evasion in the duration.)

✓✓ Pierce ( decent on large sized bosses. instantly deals 3 on large size and 2 on medium size enemies.)

X Synchro (both stabbing and pierce are just too good so i didn’t lvl this.)

Just stabbing and pierce alone will deal the same amount of damage as your double slash, not to mention you get access to a tons of decent spells thats good for pve.

The only skill you miss out is restrain, which is again, a pvp skill.

You honestly think you’re outputing more damage than Pelt cata in pve, using only sw1 and sw3 skills and right clicks, without finestra stabbing and pierce, and without str?

I’m sorry good sir, but that’s completely delusional.

The most important thing for any player is to have fun, I definitely agree with you on this, but try not to mislead other players who wants to pve with your clearly pvp oriented build.

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#103

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#104

as far as my own personal experience playing TOS on my full dex sword3cata3, i do find other swordman lacking whether pelt/squire/rod juz swash+ctrl+c doing nothing, or
dop/corsair/hop/barb cant even deal consistent dps, 1fight with 5mobs then red hp red sp sitting near bonfire.
atleast, i kite and charge earthwave doomspike doubleslash, even i can dodge just fine autoattacking.

Firstly, if you see a swordsman doing swash + C block it means that swordsman is tanking. They’re busy pulling mobs and setting up kills for other class. You expect him to tank the boss and deal dps freely at the same time? (some good ones still do though)

Secondly, all cata can do what you do. They can kite and charge earth wave and doomspike and pierce + stab with even more damage because they have bigger kit, but they aren’t doing so because they have a role to play, that is to tank.

What you’re doing is nothing special. In fact, your puny ass dps is what make real tanks wishing they have a proper dps because other class can output way more damage than you.

your experience is not remotely correct or true. It makes as much sense as claiming “my 2002 BMW mini feels faster than a lamborgini even though the specs of both cars are completely different on paper”, no offense.

#105

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#106

the only new classes for swordsman i think is murrilio and centurion… not sure tho hah!! but that’s the 2 swordsman class-tree left that i’ve seen so far.

#107

that’s explain everything, don’t come crying after 220+ , when you don’t hit hard enough, don’t crit, don’t evade and don’t last.

#108

yes, i do feel puny coz my normal auto attack is doing around 500per hit, 800dmg per crit. But i able to stay in battle longer coz my 10k hp is dodging efficiently and still doing dmg.

while your high str high con will take dmg for exchange for your higher dmg due to lack of dodging and crit.

We have con. That’s the whole point of having con. We can take a few hits without problem, and we also have shields for blocking.

ok, but like i said, doesnt matter pelt1hop1cata or any variation of pelt, i still tank and doing dps more efficient than them due to my high dodge, i just run with my trot10 if boss is casting magic.

Other cata can trot and run so honestly you’re not doing anything special. Also you don’t need to manually hold on block forever. Pierce is instantaneous, stabbing with pain barrier rarely gets interrupted.
Having cons means you can go through 1 rotation of all your dps spell without dying instantaneously, even against magic damage.

calling my experience is incorrect as if you playing my character… i wish i can give u my steam id password so you can login and have first hand experience on my character. see for your self, this also save you trouble for experimenting.

Your experience is biased. Your level is not high and you haven’t had to deal with too much magical dealing mob. All the mobs below lvl 200 are cheese walk. Virtually no one will have any problem doing those, especially when they roll Cata a circle that moves the fastest in the entire game.

I can roll a full SPR swordsman and claim to have no problem, but that doesn’t make my experience true. It just means either I’m biased or I’m lying.

nonetheless, i definitely do not encourage any new player to do what i do. New player should always follow whatever the public meta says so to save you trouble and inconveniences.

I think its funny that you somehow think what you’re doing is something special or extreme when plenty of people have done what you do, and you know what most of them say about their experience? Mistake.

I should’n’t have maxed Gung ho. I shouldn’t have maxed concentrate. I should’ve taken more pain barrier. I shouldn’t have gone with thrust.

Public meta builds are meta for 1 simple reason: people have made the same mistakes as you and they’ve come to the conclusion that these meta builds are the ones that work best. Your free to make the same mistake as the others did, but saying “my swordsman is better than the others because i’m doing fine at sub lvl 200” is just nonsense.

#109

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#110

Yea feel free to say “yea my experience is pretty positive atm, but that might be because i’m still sub lvl 200” or something along the line, but criticizing the public meta build when you are so low level and your experience is so limited? Saying builds that are designed to tank “can’t tank”? Swashbucking is useless?

Bytch pls.

Edit: just because you’re doing okay on a full dex sw3 cata 3 sub lvl 200 , it doesn’t make you the authority of cata and it doesn’t make your build better than meta cata. Honestly don’t know where your sense of superiority comes from when your kit is so bad for pve.

#111

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#112

maybe, or, definitely, meta shine better at lv280. but it doesnt change the fact i doing fine at the moment.

So are other people.

No one is having trouble at sub 200, especially on a class like cata.

If you are this game is not for you.

#113

I have both S3Cata3 and PelHop DGoons.

Life past 240 will make you cry. Maybe less on the PelHop DGoon.

I know and I accept that this class, this meta, sucks balls like an ATM rape session right now. The only reason I am playing this class is blind nostalgia to the years I spent as a Knight/LK @ RO.

Also, since I am insane enough to have both, I am hoping that when PvP or PvE balance comes at least one of my toons will get a nice boost.

#114

Please.

/lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol.

#115

I can see Sw3 getting buffed because there’s no way that class is viable for anything beyond pvp. You have zero useful skill from sw1 and 2 besides Pain barrier and Restrain. Double slash is okay but you would still have 25 wasted skill points.

Gung ho = sht.
Concentrate = sht.
Thrust = sht.
pommel = sht.
Bash = sht.

Pelt skills are fairly useful throughout all level, and so are hop skills.

Please.

/lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol.

Yeah we know. He’s going full dex as well.

#120

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#121

You are right, I’m not following up on this thread anymore. I’ve quitted like 2 weeks ago (and glad that I did), just visiting back the forums now just to have a look around here and there. I couldn’t help but replying to you though. As far as I remember, I stated I’m only looking for experience of people who are 260 and above right? Please take your lvl 180 to lvl >260 before you start giving people your ‘experience’ LOL.

Sorry to say this, but the way this game works, anything ‘experience’ below 240 isn’t really worth ‘anything’. It holds close to ZERO weightage towards to overall ‘state’ of ‘any build’. The game’s difficulty suddenly ramps up after the Evac grinding phase due to appearances of more magic attack monsters. I would like to see you dodging magic attacks with your full dex. Hope you don’t die in 3 hits with your 10k hp.

As for you saying you ‘feel’ you’re doing much better than other swordies out there, I can tell you your build does TRASH damage in PvE unless you are very highly geared/attributed, which I doubt, since you’re still lvl 180. Even my build which I am not pleased on with my damage, does better than yours. You may feel WOW I’M DOING GREAT AT DPD2 GRINDING I CAN ONE SHOT MOBS THERE WITH MY EARTH WAVE. Well buddy, you got other things waiting for you later on. Power spikes are at rank 6 & 7, of course you would feel other Corsairs suck, because at the 1st circle Corsair they have nothing to offer but jolly roger, but wait till they get the 2nd circle.

Reason why full DEX is weak is because you will be lacking RAW damage. The very same reason why Auto Attack builds fall off late game. Because in late game, monsters will have higher defenses and whatnot. The way damage reduction works in this game, (I’m not 100% sure, but I’m QUITE sure it works that way somewhat) it works on every hit/line of damage. Just a rough example:

At low levels:
Monster Defense: 10
Let’s say you do a 5-hit attack of 100 damage per hit.
5-hit attack: (100-10) * 5 = 450 damage dealt

Let’s say you added STR, gave you additional overall 50% damage.
5-hit attack: (150-10) * 5 = 700 damage dealt

Extra damage dealt = 250
You could probably say, hey, not really a big difference here, it’s a linear roughly 50% increase of damage (250/450 = 55.55%). you could say hey, the crits from my DEX would probably make better damage than this!

At higher levels:
Monster defense: 50
Without STR
5-hit attack: (100-50) * 5 = 250 damage dealt
If all 5 hits crit: [(100*1.5)-50] * 5 = 500 damage dealt

With STR
5-hit attack : (150-50) * 5 = 500 damage dealt

You deal additional 100% damage here, as compared to 55% earlier on. It only goes up as the defense goes up. Your crits would not even make up for it anymore, because it will only deal the same amount of damage, but you will not be critting every hit. Also, as you level up, a higher amount of critical rate is required to maintain the same percentage of critical rate.

As for the other swordies doing nothing but holding C, it’s a matter of player skill. They are just plain bad and useless if they just hold C and don’t do anything else. Don’t put down ALL OTHER BUILDS BUT YOUR OWN just because the few party members that you encounter SUCK. Don’t live in your own small world, and base everything on what you experienced alone.

It’s not even about meta or what, it’s just logic and fact.

P.S: Your build is actually meta for PvP too (other than full DEX).

#122

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#124

I edited my reply with a simple calculation example, hope it makes you
understand how it works, and why people are saying DEX builds do not
work properly anymore. Thanks

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