Tree of Savior Forum

Party and support classes are useless

Gameplay Feedback Features
#1

Hi, i don’t know how the game will play at later levels, i’m actualli level 32 with both tanker and healer, but i noticed that the party in this game is useless and leveling in solo is very frustrating and boring.

Apart the forced crappy hub grindfest quest system and linear wow progression (where is the old Ragnarok way to leveling?), field bosses and missions are pretty soloable for high DPS damage classes.

I tried to play as a tanker before and full support healer after, but everytime i ask for party nobody cares and all refuse, everybody train and quest in solo.
As a full support player i have really hard time killing bosses or questing, is a hell in solo without a support party.

The party window is also awfull and seems just a placeholder, is really this game focusing only in solo play with insane quest grind?

If is the case this game had no future, at least for me, at least can you put an optional zone raid party where you can join other player for questing and kill field bosses?

Such potential and gargeous graphic wasted with the same stagnant and redundant mechanics that plague korean mmorpgs from a decade. Time to change and try something different don’t you think ImcGames?
We are playing a massively multiplayer online rpg not a single player game, playing with other users should be encouraged and rewarded not discouraged.

4 Likes
#2

Why the f would you want “the old Ragnarok way of leveling” only? You have both quests and “RO Leveling” available together. Combine both and profit.

We’ve only barely scratched the beginning of the game, let me tell you that those high DPS Highlander/Barb cannot solo dungeon and world bosses at all unless they are way higher level than them.

Party will be required in this game and just like in RO, there are classes that will need to leech (with their fewer battle abilities, like the craft classes) to level up and so party play is VERY important.

#3

Hi fairynihts, i will try to answer your questions now…

first things first: this is a CLOSED BETA - that means it is meant to test things out only, not to play for a long time. That’s the main reason for almost EVERYONE playing solo with almost only high dps classes (swordy - highlander - barb / pyro - linker - elementalist etc)
Supporter classes are only useful if you have a (at the moment more or less) temporary guild, or you are playing with a few friends.
Party System is almost complete in my opinion. There are still things lacking, but most of it seems done. If 99% of the players wont form a party with you its the sole reason that they want to get as high as they can on their own, or they already have a group. By the way we have x3 rates for the beta if you didn’t noticed already, thats another reason the game looks a bit “linear” and not rly “RO-like” (and the game doesn’t try to be ro, thats an old statement and in my eyes it stays true)
Another thing about the classes: they aren’t even balanced yet. You played a Wizz C3 already? Almost not possible - you don’t have dmg - you don’t have aoe - SP are sucked dry and HP are almost nonexistent (but that goes for every wizz class) cause this game is beta.

I can understand that you are not satisfied with your experience till now, but i will say it again: this is and will be to the end a CLOSED BETA solely for testing, bug finding and feedback for IMC and a first look for the Beta testers. If you don’t like what you have seen till now - don’t play it and wait for open beta or till release.
If you think a full sup is not playable alone - go to the forum, find a guild or a group that will play with you, or has time when you have the time.
Most of the players have done that, that’s the reason 70% of the players HAVE a party already. The other 29% are soloing only for the purpose of knowing whats ahead and maybe (in some cases) finding bugs in the later game. (the numbers are only my own assumption)

I say it again:

  • if you don’t like it, come back at a later time.
  • if you want to play solo - try another class
  • if you want to play in a group, find a guild or some guys who are willing to play with you at the forums (either here or one of the many fan pages) cause most of the players either go solo, or have grps already and will ignore you.

Last words: this game is still CLOSED BETA - testing phase, bug finding, feedback etc. - whoever finds mistakes in my sentences - you can have them, I’m from germany and my english ist not the best anymore.

Thanks for reading, Maldun

3 Likes
#4

I’m quite sure he knows that? The purpose of this place is to give feedback on the content we have access to.

6 Likes
#5

Depends on the support, I agree if you have no premade you won’t reach high levels, if you do it won’t be “optimal” for your DPS friends before long (unless you are linker) but will make the game funnier (pelta can gather mob, krivis can buff crit, priest can boost damage).

Those who have it the worse currently are probably wizards circle 3 since they have literally no use compared to anything (even bokor circle 1 and quarrel shooter thanks to their archer circle 1 are better).

Also there’s lack of pardonners at the moment, I believe once the game will launch and economy will develop you will be able to buy smites scrolls for STR/DEX or zaibas scrolls for INT builds.

However the linearity issue might not be fixed as it seems to be a gaming aspect popular amongst the today’s generation of players so it cannot be helped.

May I ask you which class you are and which build are you aiming for ?

#6

Thanks for the reply, the linearity and the solo issue are game mechanics that hardly change from a closed beta to open beta along with the party interface that i find awfull. So the reply “in only closed beta” is a blatalant excuse and a lie.
The korean version is progressing into OPEN beta next month, if you read the last news, so the game is 100% complete.

The game need a map finder or a raid finder like ArcheAge to incentivate party and cooperative play. I know is not RO but i didn’t expected a wow clone either with boring hub quest.

Anyway, i play healer as my main in other themepark games without any issue, but i find it very difficult to progress here in TOS as a pure cleric since i don’t have damage and it take eons to complete a quest, not to mention field bosses that are almost impossible to kill.

So is 3x exp increase? O_o
Well, if the exp will be decreased futher at release and solo still prevalent probably will not be the game for me. My playstyle is play as support with other players, not to grind for months in the same redundant instanced zones hib after hub.

@leerius
Full support SPR cleric, mean that all stats point into the SPR to maximize healing power and skills are all aoe healings and party buffs, so my only damage is just the HEAL skill you unlock at level 1. Cloth armour with mace + shield.
If is not possible to play full support in parties as i said before probably is not the game for me.

Thanks again for the info.

1 Like
#7

At first, no one really bothers in making party due to the fact that it’s really easy to level and considering you were level 32, you’re still in the easy zone. I had a party at Tenet Chapel 2F grinding mobs, boosting my level to 60+ and mostly after that, you will find a lot of parties, especially for in dungeon or raid. Pretty sure support class is still needed as I can see a lot of spam shouts for LFP > Healer at late level for dungeon run. Some classes are just meant to be at early level and some shines the most later on (usually the hard ones).

Korean is Korean, International is International, so what if they’re having a full released and not us. We still have a long way to go before OBT and from what I can see there’s a lot needs to be done for the International version.

After for what is said, you can go and make a suggestion in the feedback section regarding about the game current state. They did the change for the Korean so I can’t see why not for the International.

#8

You’re a joke, go play the game for more than 30 minutes before giving any kind of feedback. :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

#9

@MadHatter
The problem i’m facing, as i explained above, is that i’m not able to progress further without a party.

As a pure SPR support healer i find hub quest but expecially field bosses impossible to solo, they don’t do much damage and are indeed dodgeable but i don’t do damage either, so for kill one of these bosses with tons of HP i need hours. Not fleasible and extremely boring.
I deleted my priest and i made a swordsman -> highlander and all is 100 times better and more fast, however i delete this character too because of the boredom and the linearity of zone redundant quest.
I feeling sleeping while i do these quest, i dont find them fun at all.

The problems are 2:

  1. people prefer play in solo and there are no incentives to play in party because play in solo is more rewardinfg

  2. quest force you to follow the NPC with the yellow flag and move from hub to hub in these instances, this is the worst kind of character progression ever made because it kill every kind of sociality and force you to stay solo

Beta or not, this mechanic is hard to change. Is not like in RO, where character progression and grind weren’t exclusively related, you grind for materials and other task not only for exp, and you need a competent party.
The old RO was designed without QUEST, you move from zone to zone when you want and where you want based on the level you acquire. This was the fun part, because the character progression were different and not linear like in solo hub grindquest.

The siciality in this game andthe games with linear character progressions are = ZERO. This is thereason why these games are high populated at beginning but a desert after a while, and this is very sad.

#10

A full MP-build Support Healer not doing any damage?
HOW UNEXPECTED! :scream:

Believe me, the first actual dungeon will have players crying for your help because they’re not possible to tank without a healer. And if you actually spent some time asking people to party up (hint: dont be on channel 15. most people are on 1) it’s easy to find people that are doing the same quests as you.

You’re not even trying if you cant find anyone. :confused:

#11

Is not unexpected, i know support classes are supposed to sucks hard in DPS, is normal as acherype, the issue is the party system and social features that are awfull, and moreover people prefer to level in solo because is more rewarding.

As i said above, i reach just level 32, so i don’t know about later levels, but the beginning experience was terrible, at least for me (and close beta or beta will change nothing).

#12

You must be playing at some godawful time in the night as far as server time goes, because I see people running around screaming for parties all the time, and the left of my screen is permanently displaying parties with at least 2 people in them wherever I go, especially at that low level.

Parties are actually more rewarding than solo regardless, unless you party with someone outside of your level range…

#13

Your problem is because you’re full SPR. Why are you full SPR ? What is your goal ?
Put a few points in either STR or INT (I’d advise INT for now) since your Heal and Cure deal damages partly based on your INT.
My first character, meant to be a support, has a lot of INT. I put mainly INT, with a bit of SPR from time to time in the early game. I soloed up to level 40ish no problem, after that partied regularly because it goes faster.
My second character is STR/CON, meant to be a Monk, and for now he’s Priest 2. I’m only soloing with him so far, he’s up to level 41-42, and beat the first boss in the Chapel 2F.
It’s not too difficult because we have a lot of survivability and heals, although it can be a bit long because our DPS isn’t that great.
Actually way more soloable than for some DPS classes, like Wizards, if they go INT/SPR :confused:

It’s only really annoying when your quests or grinding maps are full of flying mobs and you have no choice but kill them with your basic attack… That’s what I hate the most about Priests: we don’t have that much DPS, and our few skills are ground-based so they’re useless on a lot of mobs.

EDIT: Party is way more rewarding. And I think a lot of people party. I always see people asking for parties, and I have my own, but since we’re not full I always invite people who ask for party, whether it is for quests or just to grind.
I rarely see people not in a party actually, but it’s probably different at such a low level since it is still pretty easy and fast.

#14

@Goldie
Because SPR give you a bonus in healing abilities? INT is for DPS mages like STR for warriors, while SPR is for healers and CON for tankers.
http://wiki.tosbase.com/wiki/Stats#SPR_.28Spirit.29
SPR (Spirit)
Increases max SP pool by 13.
Increases SP recovery rate by 1.
Increases block penetration by 1.
Increases magic defense by 0.2.
Note: SPR increases the potency of several buffs, debuffs and healing skills, making it a useful stat for support oriented Cleric classes.

If is not possible go pure support then the game is bad designed in the first place. A tanker is supposed to not do damage but keep the aggro of the boss, while a healer need to keep it alive and buff the party. The trinity always work lik this, if you go hybrid and sacrifice stats then you are bad is everything because the DPS are already covered this part (range and melee archetypes).

The issue of the game don’t lie in the class system, that is interesting and good designed, lie in the party system that is detrimental (at least from my experience) and the progression system that force people to play in solo.

I think that the whole party system should be redesigned because the actual one sucks or the skills for tankers and healer rebalanced for soloing too.

@EternalDream
How so? How can you join a party in a specific zone? Or how make one asking help for a certain boss? Or the social tools don’t work properly or something goeas wrong when they design it.

#15

I wont deny party chat, whisper, shout, etc have been broken for a while (they are all working again this week since maintenance though!) but even just normal chat can get you pretty far. Just hop on over to channel 1 next to the boss you need to kill and 9/10 chance there will be someone there with the same quest as you.

#16

SPR is used on a few skills (like Aspersion, Stoneskin,…) but it is mainly used for SP regen and to increase SP. It starts being used for heals only once you can get Mass Heal, from Priest 2, so at level 40ish. Until then your healing skills such as Heal and Cure, that are both also your main attack skills, will use basic damage + INT.
You have the formulas on TOSbase for every skills: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/

Heal level 5 for damages is: 67 + INT.
Cure 5 is: 13 + INT.
While SPR is only used for Asperion: 98 + SPR.
But that’s a bad skill to spam since you have to use the Water…
(Mass Heal, that uses SPR, is 20% HP + (100 HP + INT + SPR)
That’s why even if you go with a bit of INT it isn’t a waste~

You shouldn’t go “full one stat” in this game, at least at the beginning…
But yeah, overall I agree that the balance is bad at the moment. I haven’t played other classes much, but it is annoying as a Cleric-based character to be that “useless”. I only felt useful as a full support during world bosses and in a dungeon… and even in the dungeon it was a bit meh.
The fact our attacks only touch ground-based mobs is terrible, especially since you have maps with 3-4 flying mobs and only 1 type of ground-mobs. And our attack buff, Blessing, only lasts 45 seconds, which is super low for a class that doesn’t kill that fast.

But imo you should try INT. At the very beginning I had trouble too as a Cleric, but then I went “whatever, I’ll go INT” for a while, and suddenly everything went way more smoothly.
Until level 35-45 I was basically 5/4 INT:1 SPR.

They should also definitely add in the skills description in game if they use INT or something… It’s not a basic game where “Magic based classes: use INT, Physical base classes: use STR”, you use different stats depending on the skill, so they should add it. Not put the exact formula, but say what it is based on. It’s “bad” that we need to go on a fansite to check that.

#17

I personally like the quest system because it provide story to follow. I focus on it more than leveling itself.
But I do agree that soloing is way too boring that I fell on my keyboard once…

#18

I actually agree with you here.
No i’m not super far in the game, but I am 131 and have made about 5 chars (testing them and such).
Why did I ditch those characters?
Because I couldnt solo with them.
A lot of my friends didn’t want to play anymore because they were support and couldnt solo.
(Keep in mind party is bugged a LOT of the time and you cant even get in a party).
Being low level doesnt mean anything.
At later levels, people STILL dont want to party with you unless youre a healer/tank in a dungeon.
That’s the only incentive they have for tank/sup cleric other than being a nice person.
Im currently a 1x sword 3x highlander 1x squire and solo’d this entire time by myself except the lv 90 and 130 dungeon.
The game does not encourage people partying in general and that’s the problem.
IF you’re a dps people will consider partying with you so you stop either ksing them or stealing some of their farm. (On regular maps).

#19

I don’t know how you are having a harsh time as priest. Right now I a 13x Cleric>3x Priest >Pardoner and played solo during all game.

You have a ridiculous amount of sustain, 0 mana problems, can tank the hell of any boss and don’t depends of potion. The only problem I face is, at lvl 13x I have 30 overkill.

At 130 I have 60 con 40 int 120 spr and still do 600ish damage per auto, with blessing lvl 15 att 50 and sacrament lvl 10.

You barely scratch the early early game, since max lvl is 600.

#20

This is CBT still so you can take a breather and more room for improvement. IMC already took notice of some crucial part about the game (cleric was mentioned). The game is wonky and the stats system is quite terrible for the moment along with the description of the game content in its state right now. Quite vague.

There was no party dungeon run at lower levels as it starts from 90 really makes the game less cooperative. Plus no benefits from party (other than easier to level at certain places) such as exp boost bonus or something like that really makes a party look useless in early level.