Tree of Savior Forum

Pardoners are now truly a merchant class!Lol

Class and Rank
#1

THE INNER GAME MECHANIC BEHIND THE SIMONY SKILL

I would like to hear your opinions!
Previously I stated on the fan forum, how the cost of lv15 scrolls would be too high, since a high Lv ‘skill’ would be required. It still will be, but not in the way I imagined it to be. Well IMC has screwed us over. They created a formula that punishes the player who invested 15 levels into a skill and only promote players who invest a single point into a skill that they are trying to make into a Lv15 scroll.

From: Pardoner Skill Explanation + Simony Scroll List

[quote]
[b]Example :
Heal Lv15 + Simony Lv1 = Heal Lv 1 scroll (Parchment 15 + 7500 silver)
Heal Lv5 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Lv15 scroll (Parchment 5 + 2500 silver)

With Divine Might (Scroll Lv15 won’t help add up to some point, I’ll exclude it to make it less confuse)
Heal Lv15 + Simony Lv1 + Divine Might Lv5 = Heal Lv 5 scroll
Heal Lv5 + Simony Lv5 + Divine Might Lv10 = Heal Lv15 scroll
Heal Lv1 + Simony Lv10 + Divine Might Lv10 = Heal Lv20 scroll[/b][/quote]

In order to make it you need a parchment (cost 200 silver each) and 500 silver per parchment used. Also, note it was stated in the above link that the requirement for crafting, meaning the 500 silver is a bug. Should it be lower or higher? I’m not sure. From the above example you can see that there are two ways of creating the scroll. You can make it either by ‘Skill + Simony’ or ‘Skill + Divine Might + Simony’.

[quote]lv1 heal skill + simony lv5 + divine lv10 = heal scroll lv15
scroll level will be base by simony lv not heal scroll
heal skill level will be effect to require item to make scroll (have to be real skill level not relate to divine)[/quote]
The above was stated by Tsuyucchi who’s doing the extended kCBT and the author of the above link.
So when making a scroll, the Skill only requires a single level, just to add effect to the final scroll. Basically the skill is just to determine what the scroll will turn out to be. The only thing that has any say on the level of the scroll is Simony. Watch how this pardoner who invested 15 levels into heal, can only achieve a Heal Lv1 scroll at 3 times the cost of another pardoner who invest just 5 levels into heal but gained a lv15 scroll.

1.Heal Lv15 + Simony Lv1 = Heal Lv 1 scroll (Parchment 15 + 7500 silver)
2.Heal Lv5 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Lv15 scroll (Parchment 5 + 2500 silver)

What is this I hear? It’s the first pardoner’s fault? He should’ve invested his points into Simony? Alright, now let’s see what happens after this poor guy maxes out his Simony.

1.Heal Lv15 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Lv 15 scroll (Parchment 15 + 7500 silver)

Can you see that he still has to pay 3 times the cost compared to the second pardoner to make it? This is because the number of parchments and the required cost is that many times the skill level. The first one uses 15 parchments since his skill lv is 15. The second uses 5 since his skill lv is 5. What’s the cost if the the second invested only a single level?

2.Heal Lv1 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Lv15 scroll (Parchment 1 + 500 silver)

Yes, you saw that right. 15 times the cost. So a lesser pardoner will be selling at 1k while the more talented one will be forced to sell at 8k. So the second pardoner makes a 50% profit margin, while the first pardoner makes a 6.25%, no wait…who would even buy that? He makes nothing. His dreams crashed and his reason for being a pardoner hold no more. It’s better if he switches his profession now. Since the only single circle class was the rank 4 he had. Since, he choose pardoner now he’ll have to continue but he’s at a serious disadvantage now. What about the people who want Barrier? That’s a circle 3 Paladin. They won’t even be able to progress in the game if they only spend a single point on smite,restoration,resist elements and turn undead. Even if they pull it off, that’s 40 points wasted by the third circle. So if you want to sell barrier then loose out on smite,restoration,resist elements and turn undead.

So, I think the message is if you want to be a pardoner: “Make sacrifices! You won’t get everything that you want! Foolish pardoners!”. Guess we know now what the Merchant build looks like! A single point on every skill and a single circle on all classes. Also we’ll be able to identify them in game quite easily too. They’ll be the people who always need bodyguards 24/7 or else they’ll die, since they have only lv1 skills. Wait, it’s pretty realistic isn’t it? Geniuses! I finally understand what they wanted to do! I guess I know the title of this topic.

Using divine might: Also, when you have low levels of Simony you can still make high level scrolls using Divine might. The final scroll is:'Lv of Divine Might + Lv of Simony’. Though remember you won’t be able to make a high level Divine Might scroll if you go that way, because you spent more than a single point on it! Remember all you pardoners, if you want to make a lot of money, join a merchant association, hire body guards to help you level. You’ll be using your talents towards mid-end game to return the favor to your bodyguards. It’s an investment in money! You know what? I was pretty pissed off, but I think I like this the best. It balances the game quite a bit, by making sure the Pardoners are not our ‘All powerful overlords’ . They’ll get rich very fast, but now there is a sacrifice, as mentioned above! IMC very well done indeed!!! :no1:

#2

Wasn’t this posted on ToSbase i think because i recall reading it.

  1. I think the example was taken out of context. It was meant to show the limiting factors when it comes to crafting scrolls. “From what I heard cost of requirement is still bug” from your own source and the statement you made yourself on the tos forum admit there is an issue with the 500 silver cost. As a result, its too rash to base any decision on a bug in price that is subject to change.

  2. Lesser pardoner don’t have an edge in terms of cost. Pardoners can/should be able to adjust the base skill level, so they can produce lower level scrolls. Even in the examples your using, you can clearly see the base level being changed around. I doubt that the source was making multiple characters just to test that out. What it does mean is that with only Rank 1 pardoner, you can have equal crafting ability when it comes scrolls as a c3 pardoner.

  3. The sacrifice that pardoners have to face is lack of crafting skill variety (Greater frequency of same build = more class competition). You either fall into simony or spell shop pardoner. That means more competition from c2-c3 pardoners as your crafting build is more or less the same and also from cleric base that that chooses pardoner for only one rank. So there is much more in terms of competition for the scroll pardoner. Spell shop pardoners have an edge with less competition as it requires C2+ pardoner and high base skill level (as the spell should is based on actual skill level). Compared to Alch, they have more crafting skill variety (More alchs can make a living without constant conflicts) and less competition from lower ranked alchs (as their skill aren’t undermined by DM). -IOUmoney (rephrased his stuff around) .

In conclusions, the only use-able information from this post is a re-hash that you can use simony with DM (as cost requirement is still bugged and subject to change as a result). Thank for the effort though.

#3

@LazyBum
Firstly, yes I posted this on the Fan Base. But, some people asked me to post it here too, so that it could be noticed by the publishers.

1) Even if the requirement is a bug, this system where ‘lower Lv base skills’ are cheaper to make into ‘high lv scrolls’(Lv15) compared to a ‘higher base lv skill’ still applies. Increasing the cost requirement( 500 silver) or decreasing it, will only scale it accordingly. This is because the final scroll level only depends on Simony skill, not base level. What base lv skills determine is the cost. So let’s say that the cost was instead 50 silver instead of 500 silver:

a. Heal Lv1 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Scroll Lv15 (1 parchment(200) + 50 silver) = 250 silver
b. Heal Lv15 + Simony Lv15 = Heal Scroll Lv15 (15 parchment(200 each) + 50*15) = 3750 silver

This is still 15 times, no matter what the cost requirement is 50 or 500 or 5000, it will always be 15 times the cost for pardoners that specialized in one skill than pardoners who spent a single point on it.

2) First of all for the beta test they had scroll reset skills. This means any time they want to change the points they invested in Rank 1 cleric class, even though they are Pardoners now. They just have to reset all their points and then they can change how much points they invested from the very beginning. So all the formulas are accurate.

Secondly, base lv does not affect the final scroll lv. If you want a lower scroll lv then you should have a lower Simony scroll lv. Else, you can use DM and based on it’s lv the final scroll lv will increase by that much.

3) You’re saying that Pardoners have more competition because they have less variety than other crafting classes like Alchemist. Then you go on to say that other classes like Alchemy don’t have this problem with DM. Alright, fair enough I’ll answers both of them as separate paragraphs.

So for finding a variety for Pardoners, unlike Alchemist, the Pardoners have crafting skills (Simony and Spell Shop) that fundamentally rely on all their previous builds and skill investments up to that point. Now excluding DM and CoD, they are 15 other skills that are scroll-able. Each of these 15 skills can go from Lv0-Lv15. Also factor in everyPardoner’s different DM skill capabilities to add into this combination.Compare that to Alchemy which has just 5 crafting skills and doesn’t rely on any other class. Further more one of the 5 skills (Item Awakening) only goes up to Lv5. They can still use DM for 4 out of 5 of these skills (can’t use it on Item Awakening I believe!). Can you see how pardoner’s have more variety. Also, it’s very unlikely that Alchemist:C2 will have any additional skills than Alchemist:C2. This can be seen from other classes like Sorcerer with more than 6 skills who just get an extension to lv10 from lv5 for each skill. Pardoners on the other hand went from 3 skills (1 crafting) to 5 skills ( another new crafting), so there is a possibility that the new skills added in C3 might also have a crafting skill in it.

Other classes are not affected by DM to such an extent. You are saying this because in a pardoner crafting skill DM can be used to increase the scroll lv right? But, that’s applicable to any crafting class Alchemist and Squires too. A C1 alchemist can create a Lv15 potion with just their lv5 Tincturing, which is comparable to a C3 with Lv15 tincturing. There is a debate going on to remove DM from crafting skill due to this reason.

Link: Remove Divine Might + crafting

Note: Though, in my opinion DM won’t affect it this way since a C3, with lv15 Tincturing can create Lv25 Potions with DM. Also applies to Squire.

Conclusion: The key point from the first post that I wanted to make is this:
Specialization in builds before Pardoner class will adversely affect the Pardoner. So until the system changes, I want people choosing pardoners to be careful how they reach that stage. They should know that this mechanic exist, until it is fixed.

#4

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#5

DM nerfed in previous patch somewhere. Only gives +1 to skills now. No more +15 crafting till C3 of those classes pretty sure; unless there are mob gems that upgrade the crafting skills but I couldn’t find any so… no more +15 crafting.