Tree of Savior Forum

Pardoner Kills the Uniqueness of Krivis, Paladin and Oracle

Class and Rank Cleric
#1

The current list of skills available to be made from Simony is (according to reddit, correct me if I’m wrong).

Cure, Deprotected Zone, Aukuras, Zalciai, Daino, Monstrance, Restoration, Turn Undead, Barrier, Arcane Energy, Clairvoyance, Forecast

So, what I liked the most about Krivis, Paladin and Oracle is their uniqueness.

Like Krivis with Daino, the only class that could increase the maximum number of buffs available to your party so you wouldn’t need to worry much about overwriting buffs, which could lead to amazing amount of buffs to your party, specially if you have a Priest in the pt too.

Or Paladin with Barrier, an amazing skill that prevents monster to enter inside the circle, protecting your party from harmness, so they’re able to dish out dmg from the safety of your circle while you also protect them with your healing capabilities.

Or Oracle, being able to increase your maximum SP and Stamina, which might not seen like much, but it would mean less mana potions wasted, also the ability to predict bosses attacks with Forecast or Clairvoyance to see the item the mob is going to drop in advance.

And all of that uniqueness from those three classes is taken away by Pardoner which makes scrolls of Daino, Barrier, Arcane Energy, Forecast and Clairvoyance so EVERYONE can use those skills.

I don’t really see the point to be honest, I like Pardoner and I find it interesting that you’ve a class in the Cleric tree available to make money with it, but it takes away the core skills that makes those three classes known for.

Like for example, why would you waste your time lvling up any of those three classes (other than you really like the class of course) when I could simply get scrolls from a Pardoner and go another path so I can get the benefits from other classes?

I’m not saying they’re bad classes, they’re truly amazing classes, but for example:

Priest have ways to revive people and prevent them from death as well as stone skin which is a really nice blocking ability.

Druid can make you invulnerable to dmg with Sterea Trofh and being able to transform into mobs.

Dievdirby has their statues that gives really nice buffs to your party and CC.

That’s something that belongs to them and makes them unique and special, for Krivis, Paladin or Oracle is not the case because all Swordman, Archer, Wizard and Cleric classes can use their abilities because they can simply use them from those scrolls.

So my suggetion should be that those skills shouldn’t be able to be made into scrolls, I know it might sound rough, specially not having Daino scrolls and worrying about overwriting buffs, but maybe that way Krivis, Paladin and Oracle would be more popular other than a build for Pardoner to make those scrolls.

This is all I’ve to say about the subject, I hope I didn’t offend anyone, I just wanted to share my opinion about it.

Thanks for your time in reading :slight_smile:

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Spell shop FAKE PRICE.... this is legal? (100% BOT)
#2

From what I gathered Pardonner will undergo a complete redesign. At least that’s the information we got from the recent developer chat in KTOS.

As it stand Pardonner make many of the Cleric classes useless.

Paladin for Earth Tower = no need just bring barrier scrolls.
Kirvis for Earth Tower = no need just bring Daino scrolls.

The above two are the one that suffer the most.

In the case of Krivis, peoples would rather have a C2 Cleric, C3 Diev, C2 Druid than a C2 Cleric, C3 Krivis, C2 Druid.

Because Daino can be scrolled. As for Paladin, it’s no brainer that it’s useless if you can have Barrier scrolls.

Hopefully Pardonner is changed and every class can have it’s unique feature back one day.

3 Likes
#3

I see that is quite interesting you have a point there. Do you have any suggestions for cleric skills that they can put into a scroll?

#4

Yeah, I agree. Also, the one skill that I really think should be scrolled can’t be: Ressurection. The fact that only one class in this game can Res is really weird to me. In general, I find the available skills to scroll very odd.

@bokunokan Do you have any info on when/how Pardoner will be redesigned, or if players who have a pardoner at the time will be compensated at all?

#5

It’s really had to decide which cleric skills should be put into scrolls because it would kill the uniqueness of a lot of classes.

Maybe Resurrection which is a rather common ability after all (the MMORPG’s I’ve played everyone could revive people either with a skill given to everyone or an item), even though it belongs to Priest and unique to them, it’s a rather normal feature in most MMORPG’s and they still have Revive which is better than Ressurection and Stone Skin which is really nice.

#6

All the info we got was that it was going to be redesign, nothing more was said. They never said if scroll will still exist or not or what they are planning, just that Simony is problematic in endgame content.

Barrier is the main issue since literally 100% of the team that completed Earth Tower use Barrier scrolls.

Daino just make Krivis uselss as a class. Since beside Daino Krivis don’t bring much to a team.

Divine Stigma is arguably the strongest buff in the game, but it’s quite gimmicky and while a good buff it doesn’t warrant having a Krivis versus a Diev which bring much more DPS and utility to a party.

I have zero idea what they are planning for Pardonner but it will stay as a trade class I believe.

#7

Dunno what they were thinking adding C3 skills to a scroll, let alone making Scrolls so cheap in the first place. The money I’d pay for a Lv15 Aukuras though…

O.o
(First time I’ve used that face since 2010)

#8

I don’t have a pardoner but I think 2 hrs of buffs is so OP from what I heard. They can lower the duration of the buffs so that it can give way to other cleric class to shine.

#9

I believe that one of the ways IMC can address this issue other then a total rework . A rework would be bad for those ppl that went simony pardoner because there is a high chance it will kill their build without a form class reset. There wasn’t a problem with the simony nerf before because it occurred during the beta testing where characters weren’t permanent. Thus, people weren’t really prone to care as much. However, crippling an r7 simony pardoner at this point will going earn IMC the ire of the simony pardoners.

Give those classes: Paladin, krivis, cleric, oracles new stronger attributes for those skills. One of the cool perks of scrolls is that it will apply the attribute of that skill if you have it. So if your paladin using a barrier scroll then it will apply the Barrier damage attribute too. Therefore, you just have to make the attribute good enough that people would prefer the original over the scroll. The scroll will be the next best thing if you can’t get the source class.

Reasons:

  1. It’ll allow people those skills if they need it (for like earth tower), but it won’t be as strong as the actual class with the new attribute.

Earth tower:
Oh sweet i got a paladin with powered up barrier with the attributes in my group
&
Oh noes, i don’t have a paladin for all that barrier goodness in my group. At least, I have a barrier scrolls to fall back on.

  1. The scrolls won’t Uniqueness killer for the original source but rather a perk since they have another cast of the skill (with new attribute perk)

This is just an example (a horrible one but should be enough to get the point across): Give the krivis an attribute give a decent stats/elemental attack proportional to the # of buffs they have on. That way ppl would prefer to have a krivis use their daino over a scroll. If they are stuck with a chaplin then they always have a scroll to be fall back on (without the attribute of course).

3 Likes
#10

Sadly scrolls aren’t even that cheap to make unless they are skill level 1.

Its 700 silver a level. So a level 15 aukuras would cost 10,500 to make.

#11

The problem is that they’re doing fine without any attribute like atm so even though giving new attributes to those classes would make those skills better, they would still not need them at all because they’re doing just fine with their attribute-less scrolls.

That’s why I feel like they should remove those skills from scrolls, it’s true that it might upset people who made Pardoners, but if that happens then they would need to compesate those people, maybe with class reset since it would screw up a lot of Simony Pardoners.

#12

It would be kind of cool instead of actual skill scrolls they made enchantment scrolls that you could put on gear. Then they would activate the spells based on whatever would cause them to proc. The classes you end up picking would determine what kind of enchantments you could sell.

For instance
10% Chance to cast cure on self when hit by a status ailment
5% Chance to cast deprotection zone on auto attack
5% Chance to cast resurrection on self upon death
5% Chance on reaching critical health to activate barrier

1 Like
#13

That actually sounds quite interesting though I’d not like Barrier one because that’s unique to Paladin but other than that it seems like a good idea to me :smile:

#14

I doubt many people would want that proc anyway. Barrier can actually be a bad skill to use in a lot of situations since it will just spread mobs out.

#15

I like that idea a lot, but I think it’s too complex for them to try and balance.

I think one thing that might help balance things out would be a 5-10 minute global cooldown on Pardoner scrolls. That way you’d be fairly limited in your use of scrolls. It’s definitely an inelegant solution.

I think the best way to rework Pardoner would just be to give them access to their own unique set of scrolls that are still sellable.

I hope they just change Simony though. I’m going Paladin > Pardoner mainly for increase magic resist, and I really hope my build doesn’t get caught in the crossfire :confused:

#16

Well,
they could “nerf” barrier / daino skill, then put a massive UP in attribute that wont work on pardonner scroll

barrier:
scroll : highly up magic res and slow by 30%
paladin only attribute : att : made impenetrable

daino 15
scroll : +16 buff
krivis only attribute : enhance all buff power or/and duration by xx %

#17

Pretty much this. I was thinking this is what would happen but the thing is what would they make since alchemist covers a lot already.

I figure you could make dispellers no longer an attribute but part of the simony skill instead. Maybe some scrolls that can temporarily increase weight limit, dismisses a statue travel fee to 0, removes the money penalty on death, or maybe even the ability to increase an item with 0 potential back to 1.

#18

While I do think scrolling skills is kind of silly the main problem really is deeper if you think about it. The core problem with this is that almost 3/4 skills/spells of these classes are just under performing while one thing is so niche it’s vital.

Defense in general is kind of a problem because I don’t even think it cap and reaching that total 99% damage reduction is made insanely hard. Then utility really becomes obsolete when you can just kill faster in most scenarios with no down time.

It’s just poorly thought out design choices on their part in general. I like that there’s multiple options and diversity, but some classes really need to be looked at as a whole for gameplay if their actually viable. Pseudo nerfing something then rebuffing it won’t change anything if people don’t even really want the class to begin with from it’s total skill/spell set.

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#19

I mean, it’s tricky territory but very much doable. I guess kind of like, make them be weaker versions of spells + a few extras.

I think Warp Scrolls would make a lot of sense.
Spells to dispel debuffs make sense.
An AoE silence. (Everyone in the AoE is silenced for 1-3 seconds, or something along those lines. As far as I know, I believe Diev is the only one with an AoE silence in their kit, and this is definitely diferent)
Something like +1 to X skill for 10-30 minutes might be interesting (on top of divine might + gems)
A Resurrection scroll is kind of a must in my opinion.

That’s all I got :confused:

#20

COnsidering what people are saying, having pardoners sell weaker, up to C2, versions of the class buffs is something viable. If having a barrier scroll is whats also keeping paladins of a group, that it would be best to have the pardoner NOT sell those top tier skills.