Tree of Savior Forum

Paladin Feedback - NO BS Theorycrafting

It generally helps to perform math only when you know what you’re doing, not whatever it is you’ve demonstrated here.

And thanks for the video @web_nervepress
You confirmed Restoration does not scale with int, at least for aukuras.

To go into more detail regarding heal:
Max health = 3924
lvl 5 heal = 461, 453.
lvl 5 heal + restoration = 644
Aukuras = 153
Aukuras + resto = 253
lvl 5 heal formula = 5% base health + ( ((50 + (75 + INT)) × 1,5) × 1,1 ~ ((50 + (75 + INT)) × 1,5) × 1,3

3924 / 20 = 196 (5% health heal.)
Subtract from the heal we saw, so we can backtrack the 1,1~1,3 multiplier.
461 - 196 = 265 |or| 453 - 196 = 257
265 / 1.3 = 203,8 [or] 257 / 1.3 = 197,7
265 / 1.1 = 240,9 [or] 257 / 1.1 = 233,6

Meaning our ((50 + ( 75 + Int )) x 1.5 ) should be between 197,7 and 240,9.

129 ( 50+75+4 ) x 1.5 = 193,5 however.
So you got a bit more then 4 int.

However we can exclude that restoration adds +100 flatly to heal tiles, since our lowest multiplied number (240) would still not provide a large enough value to yield 644. (240 x 1.3 = 312 ||| 312 + 196 = 508)

Your doubled theory is possible within these ranges but only if the regular heals were on the high side. Should be easy to confirm with a larger sample size. (aka more heals)
197,7 x 1,1 = 217,5
217,5 x 2 = 435
435 + 196 = 631 as minimal range. Needless to say 644 is indeed above it.

However there is another possibility.
That restoration’s bonus healing could for some reason be multiplied by the additional healing formula.
ergo:
100 / 1,5 = 150, dur.
150 x 1,1 = 165
150 x 1,3 = 195

So restoration should add somewhere from 165 -195 healing for that theory.
644 - 165 = 479
644 - 195 = 449

Which also corresponds to the range of the regular heals.
I’m betting on the multiplier theory :smiley:

Ps, Mass heal would be far easier to test as it doesn’t have a randomized multiplier.

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Don’t you think that’s too much investment for a situational skill that’s basically PvE only? I mean, Smite does a pretty good job at killing demons/mutants already(idk how it does against those lv200+ strong af mobs) Idk, I’d consider having it if the amount of affected mobs was higher at lv1, right now it requires too much investmente for me to think it’s worth it.

Let me just go over my stat distribution for my next Pala, it’s not neccesarily right, but from playing to r6 and having got a feel for conviction + smite combo.


Right so, I never played a melee character before. I’ve just played around with archer c3, quarrel shooter c2, sapper c2 and rogue c1 so I have a rough idea how str:dex builds work but not for melee…

Multihit skills, true aoe skills like ranger barrage (with 3 overheat), elemental +% and armor +% modifier bonuses, like carve being pierce makes it good against leather armor AS WELL AS non-cd spammable skills like skyliner from highlander c2/3.

STR is really good for these multihit or spammable no-cd skills, yes i totally agree. 300 STR is better than 150 DEX. The problem with dex is your crit rate falls off at 140+ and again at 200+ somewhere. This is because your crit rate scales with your level, and the higher level you are, the higher dex you need to achieve a high crit rate.

[Removed Build]


In a previous build for paladin where I went for 185 base SPR, 190+ with armor and accessories, I could feel a fast scaling-issue occuring the higher level i got. This was felt through using Zalciai which is similar to dex in that it scales at 1 spr to 0.8 crit rate instead of 1 to 1, dex:crit rate.

The main benefit of zalciai is that it also gave an additional 400 or so crit atk due to having high spr and level 100 attribute giving +100, and +70 base atk at skill level 10 for Zalciai.

An additional problem with this build is, more points in spr less points in con… my heals were really bad too due to low int… And i felt it was more work having to setup zalciai than it was worth due to the level penalty to crit rate and having to be within melee range to do any real damage.


I prefer not to do an auto-attacking build because it requires staying within melee range for long duration so for me Chaplain is a no-no and i want to easily switch between dps and support. Otherwise STR would benefit me a lot more if i were to maintain an auto-attacking setup. But that’s not the case.


Because of going for 120 base con as a c2 cleric > priest1, the goal being that I outlast my party members to use ressurection in pvp. The issue with this though is my dps was lower than i’d like and felt a whole rank was useless due to picking priest when there is another priest in the party.


What i learnt from this is con is absolutely necessary for survive-ability at higher level when you can easily get one-shotted by bosses. But I don’t want to invest ALL my points in con to achieve that.

Another thing is physical attacks do knock back and when you have to kill paota 5 times a day in missions who deals all his knockback with physical attacks you start to realise con doesn’t help especially with low ping and safety zone animation gets stuck. Once his agro is on you you wont be able to do any dps because every hit will do knock back due to his large hitbox.


Paladin has the ability to achieve high single target damage due to having high skill base damage. With DEX and conviction, each hit has the potential to do an additional +50%. After testing STR:DEX builds with archer class, STR is superior when skill base damage is lower, but for skills like broom trap which has high skill damage, and musketeer snipe, you’ll get a much larger boost from that +50% damage than you would as a full STR build.

Remember I have no intention of relying on auto attacks later down the line due to depending on high single-target dps and cure having enough damage for ground-type mobs.

DEX will also drastically increase my survive-ability and reduce knock back as well by evading physical attacks. If i take a hit or 2, I can easily heal right back up to full and have lots of tiles on the ground for my party.


At rank 7, Pandamic enables me to spread conviction to more targets for that additional +480 damage per hit. Incineration scales off both conviction, magic def debuff from resist elements and INT and is also multihit. It’s also a debuff which is spread through pandemic to hit more targets.


I hope this all makes sense, but if you have any more questions I would be happy to answer them.

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I’m pretty certain restorations effect is multiplicative, but i couldn’t explain the results my self. I’m not that into analyzing the data. But yes Aukuras DOES NOT scale with INT, you should however get the additional benefit of having higher level restoration. But this is barely noticeable. You are better to invest your points in other skills.

That’s why Restoration is a one-point wonder. And why I’m stressing that so much.

I’m fairly certain that Higher INT DOES NOT effect restoration bonus for Mass Heal, but in the case of Heal-tiles it certainly has around double scaling with INT plus a multiplicative value to the rest of the base heal.

I believe that restoration bonus was tested during icb2. The results were, that the hidden bonus works similarly to Sadhu hidden bonus and doubles the non-hp related part of heal (therefore scaling with INT).


To stay on topic - @web_nervepress - what are your thoughts on getting only 1 rank of paladin in some other build? It would give the heal bonus, some elemental nullification from resist elements and small peel from smite or as you mentioned somewhat useful turn undead.

I haven’t played for a couple of days and there’s currently a maintenance ongoing right now. However, its funny you should mention but this patch also means Saddhu doesn’t get a buff to OOB anymore from cure, zalciai, monstrance, restoration, etc… Just thought I’d mention.


@Crow_mw Paladin is very questionable support so i’d advise against it so you can pick something more stable such as Chaplain with an extra rank for Cleric c2 at Rank 6. That way you get twice as many heal tiles.

In my opinion level 5 resist elements is kind of useless, it’s a 3min cool down and the duration is extended by level. Max it or don’t get it at all.

That leaves you with Turn Undead and Smite, but a higher level cure or heal or carnivory would benefit you more as it’s reliable dps.

Edit: It can work but remember what you sacrifice, I would prioritize cleric c2 or c2 Priest over Paladin.

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This extra bonus to healing from just having restoration up ( not talking about HP regen ) wasn’t present in iCBT2. It was added a little while ago on kToS. Paladin/Priests noticed their heals were doing a lot more suddenly.

@web_nervepress Higher INT does effect the bonus from restoration when using Mass Heal. The first person I tested this with only noticed such a huge increase because they were a high INT priest/paladin ( no SPR ). ( Mass Heal scales with both SPR and INT ).

Thanks for the guide! Btw

  1. How’s Barrier lvl 1 vs lvl 5? Does the 80 mdef worth the skill point as you can still get upkeep time 100%.

  2. How you value TU now as they reduced target -3. Still something at level 4?

  • Turn Undead
    : Fixed an issue where Turn Undead was dealing Strike property attacks.
    : Fixed issue where enemies were being killed in a wide area.
    : Cooldown Reduced.
    : Skill range increased
    : The skill now applies to [Skill LVL * 1]Targets, From [3 + SkillLVL * 1]Targets

It’s good. Since it has a chance to one-shot mutant and devil type enemies I’m taking level 5 turn undead over smite.

I’m going to be doing this build for international, a full int paladin.

Conviction gives a bonus to each element by -20 resist per skill level. With divine might it’s -120 to each element. If you have 4 x elemental gears you’ll get a full +480 attack per hit for the duration of the debuff. Because of the way Pandemic works it will stack conviction on all enemies around the debuffed enemies. In which case Incineration will get +480 attack per hit, discounting elemental bonuses for each element.

Conviction also goes into negative values. So you are guaranteed the full bonus attack. Even auto-attacking works.

Additionally, some points to note about the Animus necklace:

  • hp recovery will be 850 with aukuras + restoration + 90 Con at level 280

  • Animus (40% of 850) will give a bonus of 340 magic amplification.

  • Zalciai also gives +45 magic amp with attribute.

Animus also negates your hp recovery. So as a matter of fact, I’m stacking restoration and aukuras to get the full effect from Animus. That juicy +40% magic amp.

Cure and Zaibas also have double scaling with INT. So as long as you are full-int, that scaling won’t drop off in end-game. The additional damage from Animus, Zalciai and Conviction will also stack with these skills.

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Lol your build totally change! But I can see your vision in that build. Altho it seems like you only getting good damage at Rank 6.

So about Barrier lvl 1 vs lvl 5, what do you think of the extra 80 mdef? If it’s not that great you can even get higher turn undead leaving Barrier to lvl 1.

@redwea Resist Elements is good as it’s 20% chance to nullify elemental damage. With just Level 1 Barrier it should be fine.

You can always rely on skills like fade and safety zone because it makes you invulnerable (mostly?). Fade is really nice to shake off enemies and bosses.

I might do level 9 Turn Undead and 1 Barrier. Not a bad idea at all. xD

The magic defense is barely noticeable, especially by your teammates.

I prefer full-Int and some Con than Str or Dex. Because Int is good for healing and scales with your restoration skill when using heal tiles or mass heal. It doesn’t take much con to have a decent amount of HP.

But if you want to make a Diev, I suggest around 90 Con and 500+ Str and use high accuracy gloves.

Most recent patch notes

But evasion and crit rate scaling with Dex is bad. The main reason I wanted to make a Dex-build was for the evasion to help with survivability and reduced chance of knock back. Some con is better than Dex in PvE even if knock back gets f*king annoying sometimes.

An issue with Cleric is while swordsman can dash to close distance or escape, clerics cannot. So going for a melee Cleric it might be disappointing. Especially if your cure damage and heal sucks because you forgot to get Int.

The main issue I have with a Melee-Paladin is that you have to juggle so many stats. You need Str for smite and conviction damage, carve if you are a dievdirby. Int for healing and cure damage. And cure is really nice damage because a lot of enemies are weak against holy.

But by focusing on Str or Int you have better scaling with rank than other stats. +10% per rank.

My friend calculated that I’d have about 30% crit rate with mobs that have 100 crit resist at level 280. That’s with 320 or more DEX.

It’s always better to go for Pure STR for a damage build. So this would work better for a Diev-Paladin.

Here’s a video of the diev paladin full dex build. Fade really saved me in the fight and it was so laggy too. I don’t know why my frame rate got so bad, sorry for the poor quality. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the video! And I totally forgot what level to reach paladin class. Can you advise what base level to reach next rank please.
Rank 2-15 ish
Rank 3-45 ish
Rank 4-75 ish paladin
Rank 5-120 ish
Rank 6-??
Rank 7-??

For full str with 90 vit, can you suggest how much Int I could take. I like your earlier idea with 160 int too

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If it’s a question of INT or STR, then get INT first, it will help with leveling and wrecking bosses with Cure. :thumbsup:

I would suggest to raise Con and Int first until you reach 60 Con and 70 Int at a ratio of 1:1. This worked really well for me.

Afterwards you can raise Str to like 140~150, then get Int if you think you need more or focus on Str to get a better bonus in that stat at higher rank.

  • leather gloves and accuracy gems to hit enemies.
  • venepede boots for poison property attack
  • eklectus necklace for lightning property attack
  • 115 dungeon shield for ice property attack or
  • arde dagger for fire property attack
  • catacomb (level 170) mace for +300 magic attack and +1500 hp
  • valia mace (level 115) for + 50 holy property attack

Edit: You can always use pardoner buffs blessing + sacrament after a couple of weeks from the start when people start setting up buff shops.

Ranks: 15, 41, 83~86, 126, 176~177, 217

Thanks a lot man.

Stats are done, class prolly diev>pally c3. R7 will decide later and still deciding to go turn undead or conversion or some of both. I just need to find out how many monster I can convert with each level.

@redwea Check your messages, I made another edit after sending you a private message.

Sounds good btw. Soloing will be a little slow due to questing. If you have someone to do the first 120 levels with it’ll go more smoothly especially when there are no buff shops available in town.

I’ll be making a swordsman first and a paladin later to cover various contents. So I’ll be funding my 2nd character with my Swordie and transferring gear and stuff over using account storage.

Can you explain exactly what the interaction is between heal and restoration?

  1. Restoration will nearly double your heal tiles
  2. Heal tiles and mass heal scales with Int
  3. Restoration has double scaling with the Int bonus on heal
  4. Aukuras is only additive of the value equal to the level and attribute of restoration

Thanks for both pm, I really appreciate it!

I’m inclined on all Conversion for now unless I found out that Turn Undead chance rate is decent.

Lol, I’m actually playing paladin first and swordsman later in hoping that swordie class get buff.

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I heard that the synergy with restoration and heal tiles were removed in some old patch in kOBT, where restoration does not provide a heal boost in Cleric’s heal tiles anymore. Can someone please confirm if this is true or not?

Thanks!

Not true. Where did you hear this? There’s been a lot of “I heard about kToS” that’s been really incorrect lately. I feel like someone is intentionally trolling?

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