Tree of Savior Forum

Overnerfing Healers will kill TOS

Just something to point out here that people haven’t talked much, but damn how bad it is.

Currently on kTos (ktest?) healing abilities have been nerfed into near uselessness, this includes Priest’s abilities which have all been nerfed heavily, basically bringing them down to current TBL rules (double CDs, healing nerfed to 30% of current values).
Now, I don’t know if this applies or not to PvP rules, but in case current PvP rules stay on top of the current nerfs we’ll be healing 1/10 of what we currently do in PvP scenarios, which will simply put remove Clerics from PvP completely.
Currently the only thing that allows Clerics to PvP is Priest’s utility combined with PD’s, but Priest’s utility is already completely countered by assassin’s piercing heart, the number one PvP class on iTos’ current metagame.
Now, I’m no PvP god but we already saw a full row of Priests reroll assassin in Silute, and we currently have about 3 Priests that actively PvP in the entire server (just to put it into perspective, that is about 1/20 of the numbers of Assassins). I get it that TOS isn’t as popular of a game so we can never have a perfect number to work with, but the nerf in healing stacking with current TBL rules just removes Priests from the game entirely.

So this forces everyone to reroll DPS on their mains (did I mention Control also got heavily nerfed?) and just have healers as alts, and this is by no means healthy for the game overall.
There is no progression on full support characters, currently the difference between a full +21 velcoffer PD/Oracle/Priest to a full primus/asio/wastrel of the same build is neglectable (the only thing that matters as this combination of classes is how good you are at timing your spells) given how high damage is and how if you get 9-secs stunned by an assassin out of mask you’re dead, so this makes every Support priest to either roll a DPS class in the mix (most PvP priests are currently PD/Priest/X, with X altering between Inquisitor, Exorcist and Kabalist) or to main another class.

After the mega nerfs to healing though, we’ll only have Damage dealing characters on TBL (people often only PvP with their mains), completely removing healers and controlers from the game, which will quickly make the game stale.

So, after all of this is said, most of you will think “but what about people that don’t PvP?” - Let’s all be honest here, if you don’t do some sort of PvP (boruta gtw tbl) you are a casual, and casuals can not support the game in the long run, since the players that support the game in its biggest portion are the ones that actively play the game as their main game and do content in its entirety.

That said, this is a warning to the developers up there in Korea, and I really hope this reaches out to them: If the “holy trinity of TOS PvP” (Control/Healing/DPS - Control beats DPS, DPS beats Healing and healing beats Control) gets reduced to DPS-only, the game will suffer heavily.

Well, I hope the message was given, tyvm for reading

Edit, to add my suggestion: IF the goal is to make PvE healing more challenging, just keep the PvE healing nerf BUT remove the TBL nerfs to healing(since healers are going down to current TBL levels anyways), making it so nothing changes in TBL but PvE healing becomes more punishing to mistakes.
But having ktest healing nerfs stack with current TBL rules, we’ll be mass healing for 2% of a characters total health on TBL and Heal for below 1%.

1 Like

I have the opposite opinion,i think all this healing nerfs are super necessary.
I been playing ToS for a while,and i stumbled upon a lot of bad game designs around classes and healing in particular.
In this game,you can get carried by classes alone and a single mediocre well built cleric can carry a party thru EVERYTHING.
People absolutly suck at ToS because there was never a reason to learn how to play properly;a mediocre to decent healing cleric can pretty much keep alive 4 scrubs staying still and eating everything the boss throws at them very easily.
No reason to properly upgrade gear to go do content,the amount of no name full support clerics carrying 4 dpsers ,also not well geared thru velcoffer for example,its just astonishing to me.
People on primus with 0 anvils and trans do legend raids easily.That is nit good desogn at all.
On every MMO i have ever played,players grow slowly and steadily till they can get access to good enought equipment they can start doing end gamr content.
In TOS you just need a cleric/priests/oracle/kabbalist/pd and 4 scrubs with primus +11 and trans +5 and you can do steadily the supposedly most difficult raid in the game??!!
Im absolutly in for this nerfs,make players LEARN how to avoid, buff and not eat every attack,the over reliance on healers makes everybody just awfull at everything because there is 0 reason to learn mechanics at all.
KTOS probably taking notice in how EASY TOS is,and are not only nerfing the f’'ck out of healers(who should also learn how to properly heal and manage cd,build -gear wise-and avoid damage,not just press mass heal and everything is :ok_hand:)they are also introducing plenty of hard hitting telegraphed AOE and 1 hit kills mechanics tin bosses so players actually move,avoid and predict ,instead of sitting still dpsing while healer just keeps everybody alive away from most damage.
Easy is boring,hard and challenging is frustrating ,but overal much funner and rewarding.
Game is to easy and its.mainly because.of.how powerfull healing is.

10 Likes

That is the most stupid reply I have hoped for, since this thread isn’t talking, AT ALL, about pve, and I even said that if the goal is to make it punishing in PvE all you have to do is to keep the nerfs but avoid stacking it with TBL nerfs.

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I don’t do PVP, so I have no opinion on this, but the opinion I have is that I don’t see myself as a casual (I managed to get full Drakonas set even earlier than many people who actually did Boruta). My personal philosophy is simple - I play MMORPG for the PvE, and if I want PvP I will choose a game that is dedicated to it such as Overwatch, Fortnite, Dota etc, or even other competitive genres such as Racing etc, because they simply can deliver the PvP experience way better than any MMORPG could.

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That is literally the way every single casual in every MMORPG ever made talks

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Well, if you deem casuals as spending extremely little on TP, then I guess I am casual. To me it’s simply defined by the amount of time and effort spent. To me even anyone that actively reads ktos news in order to be more prepared is as good as non-casual already. These people also usually spent lots of time at the skill simulator in brain storming their builds. If you have truly interacted with the general community often rather than just guildmates in a hardcore guild, then you will know that the people who did what I described above is already an extreme minority. The true casuals (which is the majority) don’t even bother to read event notes at itos website, much less what is going at ktos or find a database / skill simulator.

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I barely ever spend TP but I do boruta every week, do GTW every week and clear velcoffer on my characters while enjoy TBL with my guildmates, I don’t think you get why I call you casual really.
over half of this game’s content is PvP, if you don’t boruta it means you’re behind, if you don’t gtw it means you’re on a small guild (even medium guilds ally themselves with bigger guilds for boruta and gtw) which means you’re obviously on a slower pace of gameplay, it also means you don’t often #1 (or even compete for) on world bosses and so onwards, so yes you are a casual.

Even casuals read guides on MMORPGs, its not really a shame to call yourself a casual, but it doesn’t stop you from not playing the game in its entirety, you only do the basic content so yes, you are a casual.

Just in here to note how narrow minded it sounds when one says not doing pvp makes you casual, and that not doing pvp makes you unable to support a game. I’m sure I don’t need to explain why that is. You’re not stupid.

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so many people that only log on to do leveling dungeons and saalus getting hurt by one statement on a thread that doesn’t even focus on that one statement, what the fi

I don’t see how I am behind when I obtained full Drakonas earlier than most people who actually did Boruta (as already mentioned in my previous post).

You sounded even more silly then with this proclaimation. How are you to compare to people who actually spent a hell lot of TP to buy and sell 10-20+ Tokens in the market on a regular basis? You think these people are really the same people who do Boruta / GvG? As if they have a need to spend 99 TP to earn 10m. This is just 1 of hell lots of examples.

Getting hurt? Nah, it’s just seeing how much you love to argue on fallacies that is specially crafted for your own needs and ego. Even this sentence is full of it already by claiming the people that have argued against you are hurt / login to only do dungeons and saalus.

Not to mention your own pathetic definition of ‘supporting the game’ means doing contents in its entirely but at the same time proclaiming that you barely spent on TP, and that the game will die without people like you. And I bet ‘entirety’ is also crafted for your own needs since you likely don’t really care about collections / titles / daily missions / mercenary missions.

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you are angry at my statement, there is no denying it. This is prooved by the fact you’re still derailing my thread even further with your nonsense.
To make things worse, this thread, which is completely about PvP, has a subject that in no way shape or form targets you, yet you’re here like some kind of enraged animal constantly posting on it

You can’t explain anything. You can’t explain ‘nonsense’, ‘casuals’, ‘supporting the game’, derailing’, nothing. So far all you did was to blabber everything you feel, with no substance. You are the one that made yourself feel important in why the devs should listen to you by basing it on you are the supposedly ‘non-casuals’ and that non-casuals are the one that can truly support the game. So everyone who have replied so far are indeed on-topic. While you deem people as derailing because as I said before, it suits your ego and needs, that’s how you have always argued so far. And this is because you found it hard to counter-argue them on what is truly supporting the game / being casual or non-casual, which is natural since you just blabbered everything from your ass.

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First, the only reason ■■■■■ like you buy P2W TP items is so that you feel like you’re on par with people that play the game in its entirety and do all content. There are only 2 big guilds on my server, but all the guides you find around the internet and the information you find are from the people from these kind of guilds, not all players from these guilds spend tons of money on TP though, despite still being at the top in terms of content generated for the game as well as being the ones you follow when playing the game.

Don’t pretend to be an idiot denying that you buy P2W ■■■■ for this reason, it is known that PvE content in this game is easy, the only reason people get gear is so their characters “look cool” in their own eyes and in the eyes of others, that is the entire point of an MMORPG. People get destroyed in PvP and want to be as cool as the dudes that destroyed them.

If PvP content isn’t cool, the reason to have cool stuff dies and the people that do everything in the game won’t play it, simple as that. And as soon as the big guilds, the players that are around doing all the theorycrafting ■■■■■ like you blindly follow, lose interest in the game, then the game slowly dies.

My entire thread is an explanation on cleric pvp, the meta, the changes and that if interesting things like the previously mentioned “TOS PvP holy trinity” of DPS/Control/Heal dies and PvP becomes a homogenized pool of ■■■■, players that generate the content that run the game will lose interest in it.

What kind of animal you have to be to not understand that if the content that people who play the game the most in terms of time-investment isn’t interesting, then people will eventually quit the game?

It’s truly fascinating how most players get so heated or passionate when it comes to PvP topics. Before things get too out of hand, take a step back and relax guys.

The Devs are still trying things out. If the new changes are bad, they’ll try to fix them. We don’t have any of the changes yet, so we will have to wait and see how it goes.

Whoops, now it seems you are very angry and jealous that I can get full Drakonas set earlier than you even though I don’t do contents in its entirety including Boruta, and then you proceed to assume I buy P2W stuffs, when I already said I hardly bought TP at all. All other things you said are automatically invalid, but even so, I also don’t criticise people who really buy and sell P2W TP stuffs like Token / Leticia cubes’ contents like you do, cause unlike the egoistic you, I have a broader mind on what is ‘supporting the game’.

It also seems that you hardly played any MMORPG at all when there exists lots of such games who has zero PvP but has many big active guilds as well.

I don’t mind to keep replying you, because you only sounded more silly each posts (and ironically, like an enraged animal that you call others for). Would love to see your supporters as well, if any xD

Eats popcorn in the safety of my bomb shelter I missed reading forums. Good to be back guys.

3 Likes

yeah its good to ignore the entire argument I made just so that you try and look like “you won the argument”.
You also missinterpreted literally everything I said in this entire thread (no exceptions) like some generic leftist journalist, I’ll just ignore you then, good luck.

Argument? Where? Or is blabbering out of your ass considered an argument? I still don’t see you putting in any further substance on what is ‘supporting the game’, ’ casuals’, ‘derailing’ etc other than again, blabbering everything to suit your ego.

Proved my point once again. Every word and action by me, including ignoring an entirety of your post, was supported. So far you literally offered 0 counter argument other than “Waaaaa you are derailing my thread”, “You misinterpreted everything I said”.

Ignore me? Oh my god I’m scared. This thread will die even faster, because you have no supporters and you will just ignore every post that goes against you.

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OP is so hostile from the get go its obvious they won’t listen to anyone but I will bite since I am an active Priest who PVPs in TBL/Gem/GTW.

I welcome any nerfs to healing and priests. They are and have been too strong throughout the history of the game especially in PVP. Even if priest only had one skill called ‘revive’ they would still be one of the best choices in the cleric tree for PVP.

Truthfully, they should remove Revive completely and balance healing.

  • In TBL, if you have a priest your odds of winning are insanely higher simply because you pop revive and now you have 1.5 life bars and a 3 sec invuln. Forget about having Mass Heal (which I can currently get to heal 80k plus in burst healing and close to 100k with linger on a short CD)
  • In Gem I am currently unkillable if I play smart, thanks to modafinil and revive. Again, mass heal with guardian spirit is huge.
  • In GTW every party has a priest by default for their revive button. Priests are meta and will continue to be after this change.

In short, you don’t take priest for heals. You take it for Revive.

10 Likes

I suggest people to minimize giving your opinion on TOS forum because many people catch feelings very fast and tend to lash out at others because of a disagreement (no matter if the reason is valid or not).Due to seek of attention to themselves or to bump the thread by trying to provoke people purposely to attract a IMC staff.

This is childish,say what you have to say without being negative and leave or debate it properly without each of you attacking each other.

People need to learn more and accept to agree to disagre.

Good day!