Tree of Savior Forum

One Week Overview of Tree of Savior

So it’s been a little over a week into ToS iCBT2 and I have to say I’m somewhat pleased with my experience. However, as with anything, ToS is subject to a bevy of flaws.

1. The Story
I’ve always been a huge fan of Final Fantasy games and enjoyed the story thoroughly. I’ve been one to place story as one of my key aspects of any game, although gameplay always trumps story in the end. That being said, story is a method that is used to make a person invested in the characters within the medium. Story is useful in any traditional console or PC games as it acts as a device to move the characters forward and make us care about who they are and why they are doing that, and I love being invested in these characters.

With that being said, Tree of Savior has absolutely no need for story. When I play an MMO, it’s to play with a large community and the community itself becomes the game. There is zero reason for anyone to try and make me invested in the character, because the character itself is mine and I will never need someone to push me to care about myself. MMOs live and die on the experience within the game with few people playing and leaving for the story. It ends up being a weak distraction from leveling where a large number of people even skip through the dialogue so they can get to the next quest. quest quality itself can even be affected by a story, as it just serves as ferrying the player from place to place, having them kill a few monsters before they’re sent off to the next zone.

I understand that much of this is set already, however, it’s worth being stated, especially if the game can be modified going forward to an experience more about the players living in a world, rather than 100,000 saviors protecting the Goddesses.

And as a quick note of the story quality. It seems that there still needs to be fine tuning on translation but that’s understandable, and I’ve even enjoyed how IMC has handled that, so I’ll ignore the mistakes I’ve noticed. But overall for the quality I’d have to say it is lacking. Much of the driving points feel somewhat forced and not entirely connected. Some quests are used to clear paths and burn down thorns (good) while others are used to find a missing ring that we inexplicably know where it is and also is protected by a giant bug for some reason (bad). Honestly, this is probably par for the course in MMOs these days, but that’s a horrible bar to measure yourself against, which leads back to my point that stories in MMOs are hardly useful or worth it.

I will say I do enjoy the mythos behind the worlds lore though, although again, you can create a world with Goddesses that protect the world without making each player the “savior”.

2. The Combat
I’ll say I’ve enjoyed this part mostly although some problems still exist. I’ve played with keyboard controls as well as gamepad, and I’ll say as an Archer/Wizard, ranged targeting can be a tad difficult. With Ctrl off, it’s nearly impossible to focus on any one monster, especially as you’re supposed to be kiting them. With Ctrl on, it can be very difficult to switch targets as Tab seems to be random at times to which target it moves to an almost seems to not work if you’re running away from the target. A priority system could be nice where enemies that are targeting you or your party receive increased priority when tabbing to mitigate the random nature of switching.

Another problem seems to be how Swordsman are disproportionately strong, as has been noted many times elsewhere throughout the beta. They ignore the previous targeting issue since they’re melee, they hit harder and can take more damage and can even sprint. The one “disadvantage” they suffer from is range, but Archers/Wizards are even limited on that front as you always have to be relatively close to be able to hit anything.

3. Progression
I made a post elsewhere regarding this, but it’s an important aspect. Every class you take should play an important role when it comes to end game. There should never be a point in game where once you hit class advancement, any previous class becomes obsolete. A strength of the game relies on its variety, but by having a tiered system where later classes are just all around better than earlier classes greatly restricts the amount of customization that can occur. It gives an illusion of choice that can affect the journey but not the destination, as everyone would end up as the same classes at the end.

To give an example, in RO a wizard always has use for firebolt, an archer for double strafe, acolytes for bless, swordsman for bash, etc. Changing classes or even becoming transcendant does not make any previous class obsolete. I mention this not because of the RO>ToS relationship, but because this is class progression done right.

4. Additional Notes

  • I view experience rates fine as is and should remain the same for release, however, they should be greatly upped for beta to allow more testing and for more players to experience much more of the game.
  • Allow more customization for the players lodge. It’s a fun little feature but it would be nice to have more control there.
  • Give reason to why each class NPC is at its location. Don’t just throw them where ever or put some in the middle of nowhere just because.
  • Make attack types based on weapon type, not class. If a wizard wants to use a sword, let him swing it and be based on STR.
  • Just get rid of the shout chat. It doesn’t add anything to the game.

Closing
Tree of Savior has been enjoyable, but for it to truly shine there should be more emphasis on the players creating the world, not the world creating the players. Additional balancing and making sure to never limit creativity and customization when it comes to defining your build is a must. Additional restrictions are almost never a good thing. I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.

TL;DR

  1. MMOs have no need for a story. You don’t need to spend resources making me invested in a character that is unique to me.
  2. Combat can be clunky for ranged, and everyone is at a disadvantage to swordsman.
  3. Don’t make any choice pointless, and don’t allow class progression to make previous choices obsolete.
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LOL, no need for story? In my opinion that’s what makes some MMOs much more enjoyable and not that “Just go there, kill things and get max level” thing. The story and cutscenes are quite enjoyable and I always take my time to pay attention to them.

As a barbarian, I must agree. I do think that swordsman classes are pretty good, but that doesn’t make the other classes weaker or at disadvantage. You just have to take note of your class strong and weak points and make the best out of it.

And I don’t think the previous classes are obsolete. My best boss-killing skill is without doubt Cartar Strike (from Highlander circle 1). At level 5 with 25%+ attribute damage deals way more damage than my level 10 Seism (Barbarian circle 3) with +35% damage. But to kill normal mobs, seism is a beast. The only class I did not get any attack skill was from swordsman, where I just took the buffs from it.

You just gotta take your earlier skills and upgrade them. They usually are cheap to level the attribute up and can be very useful.

I agree with 80% of what you said. And…yeah, i feel there is a lot to get done with. Previous classes becomes obsolete because there is no power scaling. Int improves just a few skills and normal attacks for wizards and str only normal attacks. The damage of the skills should scale with stats, not a fixed value.

About swordsman being overpowered…yes, they can 1v1 anyone and win with the right stat build and some crowd control and debuff skills. But i believe is not overpower and the other classes are somehow…weak. Because of what swordsman can build and what the other classes must build…there is no path for them to become really strong. I mean…Archers deal good dps, but lacks HP in a way that 2 to 3 skills could kill them. Wizards on the same way. Clerics are the only ones that can take a punch and come back, but even them…they win by tiring the opponent. If there was scaling power wizards and archers could have some advantage before the swordsman geto close to attack.

Attributes are not cheap and they cost the most valued thing. TIME. I believe if they could add a scaling power, remove attributes that increase the damage by 1% per level and add a different effect for the skill would be a lot more usefull. Like bash having a chance to stun, energy bolt having a chance to reduce magic resistance, etc. The damage should be the players merit, not something taught by an npc.

The thing is, the story in MMOs is just a distraction and they tend to lack actual pull and seem forced. It’s the same here where too often I encounter random allies amidst large numbers of demons having them ask me to do some random task that they are unable to do, or even help in any way. They seem forced and random and don’t contribute to the gameplay other than attempting to distract you from the fact that you’re leveling.

If you want to actually play a story, play a game that’s based on it. MMO’s grandfather in stories just because they’re the norm in most games. However, in most cases, they don’t fit. And really developers don’t even want you playing for the story, because stories can be completed. What they do want and what makes a good MMO is a thriving world where people engage one another. That keeps people playing and that makes a solid foundation for any online game.

That’s not to say you can just skim over the world lore. You can include great backstory, world affecting quests, limited time quests that are started by the players and affect everyone in the game (God Item quests in RO for example).

For your other points, I would suggest you try another class and say how you feel afterwards. You’re currently playing the one overpowered class and referring one of the most overpowered skills. The playstyle itself is easier, they take more damage, and they deal more damage as well. They have no weakness whatsoever. As for scaling, a lot of buffs/skills in game scale via flat damage, which is a horrible way to scale. You end up having later classes completely outshine earlier classes as a result.

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Honestly, I would say swordies need a slight nerf and the other classes could use a boost. Wizard/Archer still have to deal with lesser controls for being ranged, and they don’t even get large range. Most skills you have to be fairly close, and some wizard skills require you to be in melee range to have them be the most effective.

For skills, I agree they should make more of them based on percentages so they can scale better. Make STR and INT important to their damage and not so heavily reliant on what weapon you have and how upgraded it is. Each class really should contribute something to your final build, and if you take Circle 3 on anything that should really define your character as that makes up a third of your class. It shouldn’t matter if you take Circle 3 Archer or Circle 3 Cannoneer, they should both define a large part of who you are as a character (and be viable).

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