Tree of Savior Forum

Once again, Sapponeer

I know I made a similar thread before but it kinda expired and I can’t revive it anymore XD

Anyway, I’m back after 5-month absence and I just wanted to ask if my sapper/cannoneer build still holds water:

I played around with this back when there was a free reset event and this is what I came up with (but I returned my main back to SR).

My reasons:
Archer: To max KS. OS for clearing trash. MS for destroying obstacles.
Sapper: I don’t like skills that use up items so I got BT only because it’s pretty much mandatory. I didn’t like other traps during reset event.
Cannoneer: That’s why I’m making this post. I’m pretty sure about first 2 classes but this one - no idea.

I have little dumb reason for keeping my skills like this. I play with a controller, so I have a limited number of slots to fill. With this build I have exactly 16 skills and 4 slots for potions/other stuff. In the other set I keep mostly warp scrolls, fishing rod etc. And I’m kinda too lazy to keep changing sets mid-battle :stuck_out_tongue:

At the moment I’m lv 133/4 Sapper C2 with skills:
Stake Stockades 5
Detonate Traps 5
Broom Trap 5
Collar Bomb 4

As for the equipment, is the stuff I listed and required stats on armor/weapon ok?

Weapons and gems seem fine. Primus raffye crossbow may be a better option if it gives good amount of stats like STR or SPR (you don’t have QS skills anyway). I’m not sure about centaurus cards though. IIRC, I had this discussion before and people were saying most of cannoneer’s skills add alot of AoE attack ratio already that you won’t need to have items that adds AoE atk ratio.

Build is fine too. Some options to consider:
Arch2-sap3-rogue-cannon3, captures broom trap and use again.
Arch2-sap2-wugu2-cannon3, wugu provides good single target/boss DoT.

Wugu is dead, the DoT is too low, they need to update wugu and a lot of the archer class tree
But i haven’t tryed with the cards that give u like +100 poison damage yet, idk if a +300 total would be that helpful on the skills or just 300 plain dmg which is mediocre
Even with decent gear the damage wont change much

Glass Mole is always an option, for that burst spike.

One more thing, regarding skills:

Sapper: wouldn’t it be better to get these instead:
Stake Stockades 5 instead of Collar Bomb 5
Claymore 15 instead of Stake Stockades 15
My reason is mainly because CB sucks when there’s only 1 monster present, or they just refuse to walk into the marked one.
As for Claymore, it’s the 2nd strongest skill next to BT (I think so). Or is it better to keep SS at 15? I have 2 free skill resets with 9 day cd on them so I can still experiment, but I’d like an opinion if I should keep my build how it is or if the new changes I’m planning are better.

Cannoneer: I asked around on other sites too and one of the answer is:

“Cannon Blast is objectively weaker than Cannon Shot now with its higher cooldown, and lower damage per cast, so max Cannon Shot instead of Cannon Blast.”

Is this true? Should I switch them around?

I’m no expert on sapper-cannon, but I will share some of my opinions on your questions. Keep in mind that I’m just sharing my experiences with sapper-cannon. I did not do any math to calculate damage per sec or anything…

For sapper:
The reason why I don’t use claymore is because the item itself is quite expansive. If money is not an issue I think I would have gotten that skill. However, I’d still max stake stockades because it doesn’t consume item, has 2 overheat, and works with detonate trap. So after maxing broom trap, detonate trap, and stake stockade, I would put 5 points into either spike shooter or claymore. And collar bomb sucks in my opinion. Probably because I don’t know how to use it effectively…

For cannoneer:
Hm… Cannon shot does indeed have lower cooldown, so if you spam it, you might be able to deal more damage than cannon blast ALONE. However, you have quite a lot of skills as a sapper-cannon. In my opinion it is better to use more high damaging ones (let cooldown runs while rotating your skills) instead of using 1 weaker but lower cooldown one. Cannon blast also has higher AoE attack ratio, and 2 overheat. So I’d max cannon blast instead of cannon shot. It is just more pleasant to play that way.

Yeah, Collar Bomb sucks big time.
As for Claymore, the further in game you go the more money you make so 300 silver isn’t really that much IMO. I’m lv 160/10 right now and at Demon Prison and I easily make cash for the traps.

So after testing the skills I finally decided for:
Stake Stockades 5
Claymore 15
Detonate Traps 15
Broom Trap 10

Even if SS doesn’t use any materials it’s mostly just a combination of QS’s Caltrops and Pavise. Set the stakes, let the mobs walk into them, and if they don’t die after the first contact, blow it up in their face with DT 15 >:)

As for CS vs CB… It’s a matter of quantity vs quality I think. Let’s do some simple math:

Cannon Shot at lv 15 deals 1033% base damage.
Cannon Blast at lv 15 deals 1522% base damage.

Not counting attributes, and with 1000 base damage they deal:

CS = 10330 dmg every 5 sec.
CB = 15220 x 2 = 30440 dmg every 25 sec.
So in time it takes CB to reload, I can make 5 CS shots for 51650 dmg total.

So logically I should max CS and put 1 in CB for armor break attribute so CS can deal even more damage.

Does that make sense? Or am I missing something?

Don’t forget to account for the triple hit attribute of cannon shot, which effectively doubles its damage towards ground targets.
This attribute is what made cannon shot significantly better than cannon blast in my opinion.

I guess I’ll switch to CS 15 & CB 1 then. I’m still a rank away from Cannoneer but that seems to be the logical choice. And if I don’t like it I can always reset.

change archer 3 for rogue, is much better

Is there a point in having Kneeling Shot 10?

Bazooka is better and will soon recieve a -50% animation time reduction that will make it really easy to use.

Bazookas 100% additional damage vs some extra attack and 10% base critchance for Cannoneer attacks, I doubt that Kneeling Shot can really outperform Bazooka unless you have a lot of DEX.

Also, since Sapper will soon recieve an attribute that lets its skills scale with subweapon attack instead of mainhand, this will become even more unnecessary.

Wugushi is actually nice since its damage over time scales with your mainhand attack, so if you go into Bazooka Stance, your DoT will now scale with your enhanced Cannon attack value. The same happens with e.g. Falconers Hovering, Sonic Strike, Pheasant,too.

So you can use your poison skill, go into Bazooka, and watch the ticks getting rather decent damage over time.

Wugushi also allows you to use 3x Velnia Monkey card for a permanent 30% damage boost instead of some 30% attack boost every now and then after drinking an SP-potion.

Wugushi will recieve a Class attribute that let its skills scale with subweapon attack,too (just like Sapper), so it’s fine to use on Cannoneer overall (might not be the best but a viable choice for the lower Ranks).

Arch2-sap3-falconer-cannon3 is also an option.
Falconer C2 would become available at Rank 10, which allows you to have access to the Pheasant 5 hit attribute (turning Pheasant into an AoE-nuke) and the Hovering 2x damage against bosses attribute.

It’s not as good as other Classes at the moment, but Falconer C1 still provides Circling, which is useful to debuff and mob monsters as well as the Pheasant (good CC with either stun or knockdown; has a large AoE and a target limit that’s not limited to AoE attack ratio) and Hovering, which improves your overall boss damage contribution as it’s easy to Roost>Hovering>Bazooka>see high damage numbers for a while during the time you attack with Cannoneer skills.

Not everyone is a Cannoneer, sadly i left that class months ago due to huge SP consumption but wont deny it was pretty fun, sadly i combined it with Sapper and that made it kinda boring

KS attribute Precise Attack:

  • Increases critical rate of some Cannoneer skills by 1% per attribute level when in the [Kneeling Shot] state
  • Applies to the following skills: Cannon Blast, Cannon Shot, Shootdown, Siege Burst, Cannon Barrage

AFAIK you can only do basic attack when in Bazooka state, same as in KS for Archer. And 10% crit rate for most Cannon skills is nothing to sneeze at IMO.

I know this has nothing to do with having KS 10 but I like that skill the most, so…

this is not true at all. in bazooka state you can use all your cannon skills

In Bazooka stance, you get +10% additional damage per skilllevel for all Cannoneer skills you use during Bazooka and the basic AoE attack ratio of your Cannoneer skills is doubled during Bazooka as well.

E.g. Cannon Shot level 15 has 5 basic AoE attack ratio and 1033% base attack.
Now I use lvl 10 Bazooka .
If I use Cannon Shot during bazooka stance, its AoE attack ratio becomes 10 and its attack is doubled to 2066%.

I can’t see how 10% crit rate can be any better than this boost in both AoE and damage, as crits are only dealing 150% damage while skills during Bazooka deal 200% all the time (and if you crit, it’ll be 300% of the initial damage).

Also, I don’t know if the precise attack attribute got updated, but I don’t see Sweeping Cannon in the list, which is Cannoneers strongest skill…

:thinking: Hmm…
Then would it be actually better to ditch KS alltogether, remove 1 archer rank and instead go Rogue c1 for Capture so I can use Broom Trap twice in a row? I got 1 free rank reset and I don’t want to mess this up…

Also on a side note:

  1. Is AoE attack ratio still about how many monsters I can attack with one skill or does it work differently now? What is my base AoEAR? I’m asking cuz I’m wondering if I should be getting Centaurus card over Glass Mole if that AoE boost is better.
  2. Do Rogues passive “Dagger Mastery: Sudden Attack” still bug Werewolf cards? And if I’m not planning on using Werewolf’s, should I get that attribute?

Appraiser instead of Rogue, Rogue sucks, Rogue took 3 werewolf cards for purple slot while in Bazooka mode you REALLY need gazing golem to have pain barrier (not being knocked of of bazooka stance)

Appraiser give 3 more enhancement levels to your cannon = more damage, 1 crit resist debuff, and open a shop when you leave the game.
=> Appraiser, in my opinion, is a must-have class for pistol users and cannoneers.

3 of my 4 archers have appraiser in it

Just because you go Rogue doesn’t mean you have to use Werewolves. And the idea of ability to use BT twice is very tempting to me. I’m sorry, but I love that skill, it’s insane, with capture I’d effectively lower it’s cd down to 15 sec (2x15 sec duration).

TBH my build is just a version of this:

(run this thru Google translate)

All I did was change rogue to archer c3 for some dumb ocd reason (3x c3). Also I don’t like having a clusterf**k of skills (again, I use a pad & I’m lazy) so minus KS and plus Capture I’d stay at 16.

PS Capture’s tooltip says it can capture x skill lv. Does that mean I can capture BT more than once?

I actually reset Appraiser away from my Cannoneer because it had little to no practical use. Sure, you can use the debuffs&buffs, but it is tedious to cancel Bazooka every time just reapply Overestimate or to debuff another bunch of mobs with Blindside.
I still think that Falconer is better, it gives me Circling so I can hit more mobs and Hovering works well with Bazooka.

I hate that trap tbh, it always disables my Kabbalist from using Gevura/Double Chance because it keeps using up the damage multiplication counts for its lousy hit damage.
Broom Trap is somewhat “overestimated” in my opinion.

I’ve yet to see it perform well enough to justify its existence, maybe because its attack% per hit is so low that its damage doesn’t matter much against monsters with transcendet armor/high defence.

Maybe the new Sapper attribute will make it at least worthwhile for Cannoneer…

Ok, I switched to A2/S3/R1 and I must say that I love it now XD If I do things right I can basically use Broom Trap 3 times in a row <3