Tree of Savior Forum

New Hard Lepi Guide Translation

Hello!
I’m posting a link to the translated guide from kToS for the new hard lepi raid. Please note that it is a rough draft guide, but figured that it would be more beneficial if many people have access to the detailed mechanics.

Cheers!

kToS Translation of Hard Lepi Raid

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minimum requirement: +3 boruta seal… okay, i will wait patiently till next episode they make lepi hard as available to everyone as today’s Lskia

Minimum requirement: being a robot.

Congrats to the people who already completed this raid! I’m still waiting for a bold party to complete it on Fedi, they will be legends.

Has the Korean guide made mention of anything that happens when you hit 99 debuffs? Our experience has been when that happens to any one person, the next poison pulse insta wipes the raid. It’s happened once to us, but we can’t be sure if that is indeed the case.

The raid is tuned a bit high. It’s about 20 minutes of not messing up and good coordination and teamwork. It is probably out of the question for most people due to the specific dps and gear checks as well as the mechanical requirements. I also would add that it’s not for a team that can just clear legend skia easily. You should be at the point where normal moring is on farm for you before you enter hard because you ideally need to know how to perform the mechanics of the normal. It’s just combining multiple ones at a time.

I also haven’t seen anywhere in the ktest of a nerf just yet though.

Unfortunately, there wasn’t anything about a wipe from 99 poison debuff. However, he did mention that with the 99 stacks, the basic attack does hit a lot harder. I believe the 3 hit attack (with the safe zone in the middle) hits 200k damage per hit with the 99 poison stacks on top of the poison tick damage.

If anyone dies, they pulse poison stacks and damage to everyone else. Having 99 poison stacks is not lethal, but if someone does die for any reason, they will pulse poison to everyone else, and if someone else dies to that, then it just cascades and wipes the party.

Any mechanic or attack that would add poison stacks while not having poison immunity causes a large amount of extra damage, so it’s just important to continue to do the fight properly and keep HP up.

Thanks for the clarification.

We had a 6% wipe where we thought everything was OK, then I took a 10m hit from no where and saw everyone was also dead. We thought it was a hard enrage mechanic that just insta wipes at 99 stacks because I think 2 people were right there.

Has ktos or the developers made mention of them fixing certain gimmicks in this raid?

  1. Mark of watch can be put onto non playable characters such as statues or pets. Basically exploiting to bypass the gimmick and its intent.

  2. When polarities change, sometimes characters don’t show their color or even show their rings, but they are indeed a certain color. Graphical bug?

  3. Raise platforms are still incredibly finicky. We’ve had countless times where players are standing on platforms yet still get lifted. This is even more so prevalent if you are a moth. The character model of the bug is clearly off and needs to be adjusted to make it more in line with where you’re actually standing.

  4. Condensation circles are a lot larger than they appear in the ground. So placing them in specific spots, you can accidentally trigger it if you’re next to another.

The raid is already really hard for most people, but these things just an unnecessary burden. One last thing I’d like to add is that i don’t like the rng of the watch. Going as fast as we can, we’ve had clears where our mark orb person has 3-4 orbs left and times where he had 0 at 15%. I’d really like to think 15 orbs for Mark would be the best spot and the rest have 10.

Since you have cleared it Crevox, I wanted to see what your opinions are on it.

I believe the raid does have some form of hard enrage or timer, but that isn’t it. When we were in our clear run, a message did pop up across the top of the screen that said “The raid will close in X seconds.” It flashed by so fast I did not even see how much time we had, as the raid has multiple announcements happening that just boot the other off the screen to pop up in their place. When we finished, I’m pretty sure we all had 99 poison stacks, at least, I did for quite some time:

I haven’t read any feedback from KTOS, but I agree with all four of your points. Of the four, #2 has occurred the least for me though, maybe only once. The mark orb being somewhat random can be annoying, mitigated at least by ensuring you don’t use it if you’re already targeted, but the reaction time needed for this and other mechanics (swap orb) is a bit unforgiving. With a certain amount of ping or even computer latency, I feel some of these mechanics are either not doable or far more difficult for some players than others.

I personally feel a raid of this difficulty has no place in Tree of Savior. It certainly is very difficult, and while designed relatively well, it has its fair share of issues, not limited to the ones you’ve mentioned.

Mechanic Timing
Some mechanics occur instantly, but others wait for Moringponia to finish her animations before she starts. The two main issues with this is curse and blind. Curse will always occur the instant her HP hits the proper threshold, but other mechanics that occur at the same HP threshold will wait until she finishes what she’s doing. It is “ideal” to have the curse circle get placed, and then handle raise, but she sometimes will wait an extreme amount of time before deciding to even use raise, which can harm your ability to do curse properly or impact your ability to meet DPS checks (fly). This can almost be considered “random”, because the amount of time you’ll have to wait before she decides to use raise is just based on whenever she finishes what she’s doing to use it.

Blind suffers from the same problem, as she will blind immediately, but then could take an extended period of time to morph or do other mechanics, and you need to resolve those as soon as possible to rush and defeat the plant. You can somewhat control both of these issues if you manage your DPS, but that means holding DPS, which is unreliable, especially in a raid with a tough DPS check as is, which leads to the next problem.

Controlling DPS
I personally find it to be an awful design to control DPS on Moringponia and Tantalizer. Tantalizer has to take far more damage than Moringponia when they both arrive, but if you damage Moringponia too much, she will execute “Flying” and instantly end your run. This means constantly swapping targeting between the two bosses and controlling how much damage you deal to each of them. This is extremely annoying, as not only is the targeting system clunky (for some reason I targeted a hunter pet nonstop in the fight), but both boss health bars don’t appear on screen simultaneously. Some classes are going to have an easy time controlling which boss they hit, and others are going to struggle.

Moringponia and Tantalizer don’t make this any easier. Whoever is tanking them has to control their positioning, and both the bosses love to move around and don’t sit still. If the bosses are stacked up on top of each other, you will fail if you simply push DPS, as Moringponia will execute “Flying” due to taking too much damage. Having this be part of the raid is awful design, as it’s not easy to control their positioning, and again, feels “random” having to deal with their AI and what they feel like doing. Both of the bosses need to be hurt to two different HP percentages every time this phase happens, and they’re completely arbitrary numbers you just have to remember and constantly check both boss HP bars to ensure you don’t do too much DPS. You should never feel like you can’t push DPS when the DPS check is as tight as it is, especially when these active phases are a total mess.

This whole mechanic is unintuitive with minimal explanation or guidance in resolving it, only the damage reduction buff the bosses receiving giving you some “guide” as to when you should be switching targets or when it’s okay to cleave. KTOS did not clear the raid for multiple days and a lot of that was simply stuck on trying to figure out why Moringponia kept using “Flying.” I know this because multiple KTOS users came to Discord and contacted me, asking me to datamine any information I can to aid them in figuring out the mechanic so they can clear the raid for server first.

Minimal Mistakes
This raid has a lot of mechanics and it’s a very long fight. Too long of a fight. The length can only be compared to something like Ultimate Alexander from FFXIV, and this is even longer than that.

Every mechanic in this fight is something you have to already know is coming, be in position for it before it even happens, and everyone has to know what their role is before it even happens. This is a lot of HP percentages and mechanics to keep track of, and there’s nothing you can react to “on the fly.” Most of the mechanics, if done incorrectly by even a single person, will either doom the run and demand a restart, or will greatly hinder your chances of success. This is a lot to ask of 5 people over the course of 20-30 minutes, and also has a chance of leading to frustration for the group if any individual makes a mistake. There are far too many “failure states”, ways the run can be instantly considered a failure if something goes wrong, and for many of them, they are instant and decisive, and no amount of gear or equipment will prevent that. My runs had some people just “unable” to do certain mechanics because it was too difficult for them in particular, so we had to swap roles around until we found something that both worked with our composition and was “comfortable” enough to continue trying to clear.

This raid is too unforgiving. I understand IMC didn’t like the “cheese” strategies in normal mode with things like Revive, and Revive does help here, but this is too much. As described, in the last phases of the fight, survival can come down to mere seconds. If a single player dies or is not healed up quick enough, the run can immediately end with minimal warning… and the game does a poor job of explaining or showcasing why you even failed. It can come down to even just one person getting hit with Moringponia’s stun, as that does very high damage if you don’t have poison stacks. Worse still, if anyone dies, it’s true that they can be resurrected or use a soul crystal, but losing every buff is usually a death sentence for them for the rest of the fight. (This was somewhat fixed in KTOS as they made Squire food buffs not disappear on death.)

Rewards
When you finally clear the raid, you have to spend silver to reroll the cube at the end. Even if you do this, it takes 30 runs of the raid, or 10 weeks, to make one accessory set. This is hundreds of millions of silver you have to pay for succeeding at the raid. The raid runs themselves take 20-30 minutes if you succeed, but due to how little mistakes you can make and how hard the raid is, you are very likely to wipe multiple times before you even clear, even if you have cleared the raid before. This will take many hours every week just to get your 3 clears in for the week.

After that, this just gives you the powder, which is one of the many materials you need to complete the accessories. You then need:

120 Magic Stones
280 Blessed Gems
400 Sierra Stones
4 Archstones
40 Million Silver
Full Moringponia legend accessory set at +10
Full Drakonas/Uphill set legend accessory set at +10

…to make your accessory set. You could make the pieces individually, but most of them are only useful once the set is completed, so you will be doing the raid for 10 weeks (unless you spend a large amount of Legend Raid Portal Stones) before you see any type of reward from it. Even after that, you still need to pay the huge cost above to make the set. I’m not sure about other servers, but Archstones on Klaipeda are very expensive, going for 600m to 1b silver, and people need them as is to make the Thunder ark. This is billions of silver worth of items and money just so you can actually receive ANY reward from finishing this extremely difficult raid.

The sets are obviously best in slot for every type of build, but the set then asks you to get a level 5 Boruta Seal in order to unlock its full potential, as they decided to make Dragon Strength level 2 actually relevant and do something with these accessories. There is a whole different discussion as to why this is just… a horrible, terrible system that I’m just not going to get into.

Conclusion
Like I said, I don’t feel a raid of this difficulty belongs in this game. It alienates the majority of the playerbase and leads to a situation where only a select small group of players have access to some of the best equipment in the game, and instantly pushes them ahead of everyone else once they do get it. The game already has a problem where, as they say, “the rich get richer”, as strong players are rewarded more than everyone else from multiple pieces of content, but things like this only snowball it out of control. The raid demands a lot from all 5 players in terms of skill and mechanics, but also requires the best equipment in the game, so players that aren’t already at that point have a long way to go to “catch up.” Even once they can start clearing the raid (which is going to take quite some time), they then have to do it for 10 weeks to even get the rewards.

Most of all, the raid is not fun. I do not enjoy this. Maybe others do, but after I finished that, I did not even want to play Tree of Savior. Between Weekly Boss Raid, this raid, and the amount of grinding the game is asking for you to “keep up” with the huge amount of materials, items, and equipment IMC is asking you to get, I am simply burnt out. My motivation to play the game or farm items to get stronger is diminished. Slime and I are the only two players on Klaipeda to hold every raid server first title, and with the Glacier raid coming I imagine IMC is going to make another one, but right now, I don’t even want to bother trying. There’s some complaints I can throw in about the current state of summoner, not even tied to its power level yet rather how IMC is handling it, but that’s not really relevant right now.

I went off on a bit of a tangent, but yeah, I’m somewhat upset with the current state of the game and where it’s going. Even as someone who succeeded at the raid, I’m not happy with it.

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Thanks for typing out your thoughts, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond thoroughly.

Although I don’t agree with some of your thoughts (that may be due to our different mmo/raids backgrounds), I do agree in regards to the reward structure. It’s incredibly daunting on top of even if you manage to clear this raid. It seems incredibly out of scale compared to anything previous, I don’t get it at all.

It has gotten to a point where I’ve seen groups rage quit because the scale of rewards do not seem to match the difficult of the raid. For as low as a population as this game has, it’s disconcerting to see this type of result from a raid.

Has KTOS players given any feedback on how best to balance this?

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I’ve done my fair share of raiding in other games, and have faced similar levels of difficulty. I just don’t think it belongs in this game, especially with this low of a player count. Ultimately there’s still that level of “jank” when it comes to the game’s mechanics that makes it all feel a little too messy, partly for reasons above, and makes it feel far less polished and reliable than other games. Beyond that I just think the raid is far too long if they were going to make it this punishing. They are appealing to an extremely small portion of their already small playerbase with this raid.

Like I said, I haven’t personally looked around at player feedback from KTOS, but IMC has responded in some ways. For example, being able to obtain Archstone Shards in KR makes it easier to get the Archstones required to craft the accessories, indirectly nerfing the requirements. This is a similar solution they took to Boruta seals: instead of directly making it easier in any way to make a +3 or +5 seal, they are gradually increasing the ways to obtain Boruta seals so you can simply attempt making them more, alongside making Magic Stones easier to obtain. Naturally, over time, the raid will be easier to complete when players obtain things like the Glacier equipment, but that won’t be for some time and it won’t solve the mechanical difficulty.

If the raid was this difficult, they could have at least made the rewards a bit more lenient, but alas, it seems there are no breaks.

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So a Legend VH raid that 95% of players can’t possibly complete…
IMC’s policy = EITHER , TOO EASY or TOO HARD.

maybe its for doing when they increase lv cap to lv 500 +stronger ichors after like …1 year.

Difficulty is fine, rewards aren’t

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Fine for less than 1% of the playerbase. If it was solely my opinion, the raid difficulty is fine as I have already cleared it, but I’m thinking on a scale of it being accessible to the playerbase, and for the health of the game. I don’t think it’s fine to have content that can only be cleared by 10 people on a server after weeks, with a reward that will push you ahead of everyone else by a mile in terms of power. I don’t think that type of content belongs in this game.

The end reward certainly justifies the difficulty, as some of the sets are huge in terms of power, but the amount of grind it asks of you is just too much. That includes the amount of time you have to invest in running the raid because of how long the attempts take and how few mistakes are allowed. A raid can be difficult without being designed in such a way.

Let’s look at the total number of players that have cleared per server:

Klaipeda: 10
Telsiai: 20
Silute: 5
Fedimian: 0

That’s 35 players, and the majority of them have not cleared even twice. These players and many others attempted for many hours, and only these 35 managed to edge out a clear. I know a lot of people on Klaipeda that have tried for… far too many hours to be considered reasonable or healthy, and still can’t do it. Very many players have certainly tried, because the rewards are certainly very worthwhile, but only this small number of players were able to get a win. I could certainly clear it more, but the time investment, the cost of the rewards (lol), and the direction of the game has turned me off from even trying.

Even clearing once doesn’t necessarily make future attempts any easier, because of how the raid is designed: too long, too little room for error. You are essentially grinding it until everything clicks and you get the “perfect run” where nobody makes mistakes (or a mechanic doesn’t bug out and end your run). This is more painful on people than grinding something like Challenge Mode.

Raids can be difficult without being designed like this.

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Reading through this kinda discourages me for even trying… Great rewards but too much task, little room for mistek, high resources… Guess I will wait if IMC ever tries to balance it…

Slime and I are the only two players on Klaipeda to hold every raid server first title

so you only did 2 man army in moring? Don’t get me wrong you said the “only two players”.

No, he means him and slime are the only two with every server first. The other 3 people have been swapped out inbetween or been replaced. :tired:

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Sounds like MapleStory 2.
:haha:

Klai 15. And raid is gonna become easier with the learning curve and gear progression anyway. If yiu want a game where you do 5 runs in 1 hour in 1 week and forget about it all just play harvest moon. Its a challenging raid, very hard for everyone, something we havent had since rank 7.

#MLG

Joking aside, the dps requirements closer to the end might become easier with gear but even hardcore raids in other mmos will only have like 1-2 fail conditions and fights rarely lasted 20-30 mins with entry gear.

…and as you mentioned the rewards would be worth the effort

Its not like Lolopanther was thaaaat bad, it asked a lot of the party, but was less nervewracking, and just kinda tedious instead sometimes.
I feel like there are more instant points of failure in Hard Moth compared to Lolopanther, and part of the reason people didn’t really run 20F that often was due to the sheer time investment considering it was a daily raid and took a ton of time, especially before they added the floor vouchers.
Lolopanther feels way more well designed at least for the time compared to Moth Raid in my opinion. (Minus the run in a circle AFK floors) Since each floor could in theory bring something new to the table, like the very challenging 12F floor which required much control from the healers side, or the very dangerous ranged monsters on DPS floors, which had to be CCed, which was later countered by having a Sage in rank 8, and the various defend/destroy floors were all unique to eachother.

I feel like Lolopanther is a much more well-designed Hard raid compared to Moring Hard which just throws difficulty at you by making a lot of wipe mechanics and hard hitting stuff and stuff you have to manage constantly so you dont really get free reign to run around and focus on the boss mechanics.
Maybe Earth Tower style raids are not reproducible anymore due to how the game has changed. But i really liked Lolopanther compared to hard moth.

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