Tree of Savior Forum

Need help with Wiz > Cryo > Kino > Kino > Kino -> ? -> Warlock

Class and Rank Wizard
#21

hi, psycho3, cryo2, wl here.
i agree with previous posts. i chose cryo2 for bigger better icewall and subzero shield.

my thoughts: i took cryo2 very late. icewall and shield are good but yes, you will lack a bit of dmg in the beginning while your cc is pretty good. ppl tend to seek for cryo3 or linker in parties but when they have me in a party i never hear anyone complain :slight_smile: (well, if they do its because of the gravity-pole-crash or someone who does not like to be rescued by raise :smiley: )

sometimes i wonder if wiz2 would have been a better choice, so i wont be interrupted in pvp. to be honest: if you play carefull you wont be interrupted much in pve. the PP stun is very good and you have many options to keep the mobs away from you. you dont really need surespell, only if you fight mobs that are way above you, since they might resist your cc, OR if you cuddle the furry blue archers.

i would not include linker to the build. i thought about it before obt, but right now it would just interrupt my rotation and the flow of cc.

runecaster always is an option, but be aware of the long casting time. i personally would not recommend to add RC to cryo c1. you would only use it for your IW+PP combo with a weaker and smaller icewall.

my suggestion is that you think about what c3 you theoretically would like to add to your build if you ever get the choice. maybe at one point you dont like the new classes. you could take the opportunity to build up your existing class c2 to c3.

tl;dr
if you get interrupted much ->wiz2
if you like mighty shield power and like to use your wall pew pew -> cryo2
no RuneCaster without CastFaster :smiley:

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#22

Thanks for the insight!
But one question, why did you not choose sorcerer + warlock? I guess its a good combination and you can choose sorcerer when rank 8 comes out for C2.
How about necro?

#23

I’m making a Wiz > Cryo 2 > Kino 3 > Warlock right now.

Sorcerer is too much SP consmption to fit in.

Subzero Shield is something you really want for PvP (especially once you already have Cryo 1 and this build is 100% PvP oriented)

Linker is bad with Kino because he is AoE, with Cryo because you can link Ice Walls.

Wiz 2 is an option but it’s an entire rank to not be interrupted, I’d go Wiz 3 > Kino 3 > Warlock if I wanted to take Surespell.

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#24

i dont know about rank 8 but warlock c2 might be kick ass. keep in mind that with warlock + psycho3 you will spend a lot of time in melee range. with dark theurge and subzero shield properly working now i think its a very good combo.
since you want your build for pvp you should think about advantaged there
sorc pets gives you distraction and dmg
cryo2 gives you defense and cc
necro gives you distraction and dmg

i did not chose sorc because i want as much control over the mobs position as possible. since pets ai is pretty retarded i avoided that.
i played sorc at icbt2 and simply didnt like it. that doesnt mean that you cant make it work. think about how you play pvp and how you like it :slight_smile: there is no final solution since we dont know what will come next.

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#25

You said you are making Wiz > Cryo 2 > Kino 3 > Warlock right now. So will you ever need cyro 3? Is it is a must to have in your opinion after all the experience or not? and what are your stats?

#26

@evrencp

Cryo 3 is actualy very good, I just wouldn’t drop ranks on Kino 3 or my last rank as a DPS one for that, he has only CC, no real good damage, and Kino already offers me enough of that. I like Cryo 2 for the shield.

I’m also considering taking Featherfoot instead of Warlock.

I’m going 1:1 INT:CON until level 100, from that point on ONLY CON.

#27

I’m building a Wiz 3 > Kino 3 > ??? right now, and having trouble deciding between Necro 1, Warlock 1, and Featherfoot 1 for R7

#28

@ken11

Necro 1 no for sure.

Warlock is good if you built that for PvP because Kino gives you all CC you need and Warlock finishes your build with the burst damage you need.

Featherfoot is nice but for PvE since it’s not a burst class and doesn’t even suck HP on PvP. I’ve heard it works well with Kino’s CCs but I’m not really able to confirm it for myself.

If you don’t really like rank 7 classes you can take RC, it will have good cast time bc Wiz 3, has some very nice utility and will be awesome when you find any Cryo 1+ in parties, especialy Cryo 3 > Chrono 3. Most people probably wouldn’t like this path though, but if you have a rank 8+ class in mind there’s no real point on taking Warlock or Featherfoot on C1 and dropping them later.

#29

The thing about Necro is that I think it may give more sustained DPS than Warlock.

I do want to be effective in PvP, but I don’t want to trade out too much on Pve Effectiveness if I can help it.

The idea is that Flesh Cannon can supplement the missing ‘spammable’ nuke for bossing.

Aside from this, Necro 1 gives [Decay] which can significantly increase the damage of any archers in your party, and the ability to physically block areas of the map in PvP with Dirty Pole. Corpse shield decreases incoming damage while damaging nearby enemies (not sure how this pans out against Dark Theurge). Finally, the summons seem to work best (though still perhaps poorly) with the Kino CC. I see a lot of synergy there, that I hope might make for a well balanced PvP power house and supplemental PvE DPS (and support, through the Decay + Raise buffs we bring for archer teammates).

At the end of the day, from a PvE standpoint it really boils down to whether the utility of Necro + DPS from Flesh Cannon bring more to the table than the Burst Damage of Pole of Agony + Dark Theurge.

From a PvP standpoint, burst damage is great, but a Necrokino might be able to get the job done, and will again be a huge boon to any team with an archer (hopefully).

I do like the idea of Featherfoot, but really just can’t see how their skills work without linker. I could be convinced to go Warlock, but I’m hesitant mostly because there are just so many of them around.

#30

@ken11

For your intentions, warlock is much better. Decay affects not only your party, but also other parties if you are considering world bosses.

Dark Theurge has more hits than Flesh Cannon and doesn’t cost anything, also Cannon doesn’t gain more hits fore upper levels if you consider future ranks of Necro.

Pole of Agony is huge DPS skills, excelent burst for bosses, has long CD but that’s just because it’s too good.

Warlock’s damage, even at C1, is better than Necro’s, he also has dark +% damage increase which stacks with quickcast’s attribute.

Cannon is very hard to land on PvP, Theurge though is too effective against meelee who tries to hit you and can also be used as Cannon with Evil Sacrifice.

Featherfoot’s skills are mostly not singletarget but have a very small AoE, they have a lot of hits and he is also able to land decay. You use linker because mostly mobs won’t be very close so you can’t affect them all. With kino 3 you have huge CC, if you stuck monsters close enough you will be able to use Featherfoot as AoE.

That’s from videos I saw, Kino 3 and featherfoot working very nicely together, I can’t confirm and don’t even have the links, but honestly, between Warlock and Necromancer, there is a REASON why you see that many warlocks.

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#31

You make a pretty good case.

From what I read Decay doesn’t work on bosses, so its really just about bringing that utility to things like Earth Tower floors and group PvP.

If it doubles damage of missile attacks (which is what I’ve read, though I’ve also heard that it could be a 40% increase) that seems like a huge buff.

Really torn on this one. I also don’t love the idea of dropping money for corpse potions.

I’d love to see some math (or you know, I could stop being lazy and try to do it myself) on the damage output between Flesh Canon w/ Quick Cast and Flesh Hoop over an extended period of time (2 mins, 5 mins?) versus the damage output of the Warlock DPS skills.

Burst is good, but if the DPS of Necro over time is equal or greater than what is brought by Warlock, I think there is a great case to be made for going Necro for Decay if nothing else.

#32

Flesh Cannon level 1-15: 16 hits.
20s CD

Flesh Hoop level 1-15: ~10 SLOW proc hits.
35s CD?

Dark Theurge: 20 hits. More hits on higher levels
32s CD

Invocation 4xmobskilled hits.
“no” CD is a buff.

Pole of Agony 11~20 x number of targets that touch the pole hits.
120s CD

You don’t really need heavy math for that, Hoop is very bad because it procs too slowly so you actualy need a LOT of time near the mobs to use it. Cannon can me missed and still has less hits than Theurge.

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#33

Currently Kino3 Cryo2. Is it worth to drop cryo3 for warlock? Anyone regretted going warlock instead of cryo3?

#34

I am interested in psy3, cryo2 too, does this build hit hard in 200+? And, how should it be the build? By the way, when werent you able to keep going solo?

And I have a question, in IW+PP combo, its ice wall which hit, your PP its not hurting the mob, only the shards from the ice wall, right? So, what is the point to max PP?

#35

Currently Cyro3 and I can vouch that the Tree of Ice (aka Tree of Death) has bailed out team by pulling all the enemies into one spot for them to spam skills in. So far, I’ve been using my skills in the dungeons, with a variety of parties, and it combos very nicely with swordie’s provoke and aoe skills, elemental’s hail, archers skill spam, linkers jp, pyros aoe skills…just really helps the AOE skills out in general. Snowball is a pretty nifty AOE skill itself that synergizes with it, CD is 80s but generally I find it recharges up well depending on how fast/slow we kill the mob. It’s good dmg for soloing.

It’s a commitment to go cyro3 when there are other ways to kill so much faster… it all depends on your play style and what you what to achieve later on. Don’t expect to be the dps of the team, expect to help your team kill faster. The only thing I regret is putting skill points into earthquake when I need sleep and lethargy >.<…I curse the “HOT” notice.

Cryo is almost unstoppable in PVP. Once that freeze lands, time the rest of your skills right and the guy should die all in one go… it’s a bit tricky up against another cryo though for sure as cryos’s aren’t immune to freeze.

I’ve seen some folks go cryo3 for kino because the extra ice wall can add up to more shards depending on your ice wall formation. Some guy has been able to hit 10 shards per PP hit… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZAi9r1jAeA

#36

It hit kind of hard when i chose cryo2. I did cryo>psy>psy>psy>cryo>wl
I was aware that taking cryo that late might be a mistake but i wanted to do it anyway. im not regretting it :slight_smile: thats about the time when my dmg turned from “awesoooome woohoo” into “okay”.
I played solo for 90% of my playing time (besides dungeons + a little grind). I had no problems with questing whatsoever. i have somewhat 3:1 int cont

the combo hits with the shard, PP only hits in close combat range. if you place the icewall close to the boss, you do additional damage from PP. even if the icewall breaks down you will continue doing damage. the downside is that you are closer to the boss and might get interrupted. besides: when IW is on cooldown you can cast another PP. if you put some money into the attributes the dmg will be very good, the stun as well. and you wont always have the chance to set up the wall. you will be psycho3, where else to put the points besides PP, GP, raise ?

hope that helped :wink:

#37

Yeah I like this wizard because its close combat, even if that is hard.

You helped me a lot, just one question, in normal fields, where mobs are so distant between them, how are you killing 1 to 1? Is it not so slow for a cryo/kino?

#38

i lure them together. so i get the aggro first, run a bit around so they stand close together.
iceblast lvl1 is perfect for that. if you use it in the field almost every mob in sight will come to you. but you must decide if it is worth one skill point for you. since i got warlock i use dark theurge for that and resetted the skill points)
but you have swap and Magnetic force as well. its not so hard once you figured out how to do that.
as soon as they are near to each other you bomb them away with PP :slight_smile:
if the mobs are melees you can even start with PP as they come closer because every mob in close range will be stunned. their AI is not so smart so most of them will just run into it :imp: its all about timing

some might think its a lot of work but i like the playstyle a lot.

#39

Haha thanks for sharing that, it was very helpful. So, you are not using your cryo skills too much from you are warlock, right?

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#40

If I want to focus on PVE content

  1. Wiz>Cryo1>Kino1>Cryo2>Kino3>Warlock
  2. Wiz>Cryo1>Kino1>Cryo3>Kino2>Warlock

Which would be better for PVE? I suppose CC wise Cryo3 would be a better choice? But the CD is quite long (skills look awesome btw). Whereas Kino3 has gravity pole (shorter cd) and a more painful PP (for PP ice wall combo) How well does Cryo3 vs Kino3 fare in term of PVE. PVP is a bonus but main focus is PVE.