Tree of Savior Forum

My general feedback after a couple of days

So I’ve got a key a couple of days ago, I’ve played a while as a str/dex Priest. I went straight for Priest 3 and my character is currently level 82. If it’s important to someone - I’ve played RO for 7 years and all that, but I understand that ToS is a different game and all that.

So first what player sees coming to the game is it’s aestetics. Visual part of the game seems very well made, it feels different from streams and videos when you play yourself. Everything is good - map design (visual part), character design, creature design, everything. Creature design worth a special mention, because it’s interesting how most creatures are infact illogical and silly looking if you think about it - like bunny assassins or pig sorcerers, but for some reason it seems very natural and fits the gameworld perfectly, just like RO. Some creatures seem really creepy, tho it seems it would be impossible to create something like this using ToS’ visual style. Game soundtrack is amazing aswell, it’s the only MMORPG in a long time where I can play with game sounds and music on and feel no disgust. The music is also perfect for the grindy attitude of the game as it helps you do stay calm and meditative while clicking on those mobs.

Personally, I’d love to see a difference in priest 1/2/3 costumes, and same for other classes, but that’s the only thing I could think of being changed it game’s visual aspects.

Since lvl 1 and to lvl 82 so far game is insanely friendly to the player and everything is handled and explained to him by quests, including crafting, for example, so even the dumbest idiot will make no mistakes and will understand the game fully and will feel comfortable while playing. As a minus of this system - game is extremely linear and it pretty much forces you to go to fixed locations to do fixed quests. If I’ll take RO as an example (please forgive me) - it had lots of locations for various levels - at the very least starting areas around Morrocc, Prontera and Geffen were equal, and later on there were lots of possible locations where one can play, however if you open ToS’ map you’ll see that not only it has only one starting location for everyone, but the game forces you to go one map after another and you can’t even swap places of those maps or something. Like, if you’ll try to kill a monster 30 levels above you - the reward won’t worth it, as for some reasons exp gap between different mosters seems pretty small, so you can’t go and hunt some big prey to get 1% exp instead of 0.1. I Know about those “elite” mobs, but still, you know what I mean. Plus, if you go to higher level locations - you won’t get all of the quest you could’ve taken which will result in a heavy exp handicap and quests are something you’re forced to do, because exp cards give insane amounts of exp compared to grinding. 15 minutes of questing equals 2-3 hours of grinding or something like that. And yeah, occasional quest bosses are piss easy, but are huge damage sponges and take ages to take down. Every monster knocks you down and prolongs his life this way. Sometimes you can be stunlocked for 10 seconds straight. Who thought that was a good idea? Sometimes those bossed bug out and don’t attack, but it doesn’t affect the flow of battle. Everything is exatly the same as if they’d fight.

Current game stage for me seems like a trampoline into the game for everyone, something like an extended tutorial of some sort. So now I can only hope for a bigger variety of playable locations. Simply put - I want flexibility, diversity and options in the game. So far there is none. And while we’re at it - I saw people cry about game being grindy already at those levels (before 80). So as I see it - there is no grind. 0, zero, null, ноль. I’m keeping up with locations’ levels and I’ve accindentally skipped a couple of lvl 60+ locations almost completely. So everyone who’s whining about exp rates or grind is doing something really wrong.

Next, talking about game’s mechanics, from cleric/priest perspective. First of all, I really like the damage type/armor mechanic. RO-like elements mechanic is still in place as well. However, most things seem not so good. Like, damage formulas are unclear, but it seems like damage simply calculates as Damage-Defence. Because of that some abilities, like deprotected zone, become completely useless very fast, as the only remove ~~10-20 defence flat, that will be more and more useless as you progress into the game. At lvl 82 I think of removing it from my bar. Healing is an example of a good mechanic - you can take it as a cleric and it will be useful till the end of the game, because it scales with your maximum hp. Safety zone is nice too, because it scales against the attacker’s damage. Mass heal and aspersion can be thrown here as well. But some spells and abilities seem to scale really bad. Or let’s take blessing - it has no scaling, just a flat damage addition. It would be fine if abilities took the character’s atk and multiplied it, but it seems like they don’t do it. So ability damage is not like Damage*250% for example, but Damage+ability damage, and later - Damage+ability damage-defence. So it can basically nullify some low damage builds because their damage will not be reduces as %, but will be simply reduced to 0. IMO it’s a very, very bad desicion.
Next - all abilities take 100000000000000000000000000 years to cast. While you cast sacrament+blessing+aspersion+stoneskin someone can run 4 screens away. I can’t say about other classes, but at least those abilities should be casted almost instant.
Next problem - contols. Yeah I know that cleric classes are not good to be played with mouse and I’ve been warned but still, I think it’s very stupid to make a PC game to be played via gamepad. Gamepad is a cripple of controller devices, and resembles of consoles - cancer of gaming, and of course is only suitable to play fighing games and nothing more. Why IMC have decided that players should use gamepad is completely beyond my understanding. I hope they will rething it completely and game’s controls will be more responsive and friendly. It seems like this decision made them consider “buff zones” like heal that’s casted on the ground instead of being casted on a player. And while we’re at it - all abilities have 100000000000 years cooldown. I’ve checked ToSbase and other sources and it seems that if I go monk I can only use double punch with some occasional ability uses every half a minute or so. I don’t know how does it make sence to give attacking abilities cooldowns that long in a grinding game. You will hit every 15 monster with a hand knife, for example. Yeah, great. In PvP it will come to 1-2-3-4-5 followed by autoattacks. And even if flat scaling (Damage+ability damage) is debatable, ability cooldowns MUST go down.

Stat-wise it’s a long talk. FIrst of all - dexterity must be nerfed. It’s a stat that gives you both damage, survivability and a chance to hit. Hit chance+dodge+crit that is. Other stats are not even remotely that useful and str/int are debatable due to abilities’ poor scaling. I think IMC would better bring here those multiplicities, like bonus attack for every 10 or 20 str, bonus crit and dodge for every, let’s say, 15 dex and so on. So far stat system seems ok but pretty boring at the same time, as you can’t actually make a character for your own playstyle with this system.

About classes and ranks - I think some attention must be payed to abilities’ scaling and some ways of making abilities of the first circles actual at higher levels, otherwise it can cause major disbalance. No one will level a class that will be useless because at lvl ~75 you will get another one which abilities will be better at everything.

Itemisation-wise - so far what I really like is that the best gear is made via crafting, this is really good and pushes people into communication that makes MMORPGs what they are. What seems a bit off so far is that 15-40-75-120~ gaps. So I’ve just bought my gear at lvl 75 and I’ll stay with the same gear till lvl 120. Not very fun if you ask me. ToS items have item levels, so why not bind item levels to player levels?
Gem system, potential system, etc. is nice. Too bad you can’t insert something really strong into those slots. (Yeah yeah, RO cards). I’ve heard something about moster gems, but haven’t seen one so far.

And in the end, talking about PvP. Haven’t done any, but REALLY looking forwar to some type of guild wars. IMO that’s a mandatory.

P.S. Gabija is not Soviet Union, please give us our market back, we want to do economy-related activites.

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I’m not really sure about the grinding part, it may be different for different class. I actually did every quest (and make sure I didn’t missed any on quest database), but I still grind for few hours before I can reach lv 80 as a Wizard C3.

It maybe due to different class has different mob clearing ability when doing quest.

Great post. You are almost “right” on every aspect you mentioned.

I’ll try to talk about this as good as I can…

Game mechanics: Most skills remain good(blessing for example) if you spent a lot on its attribute. Not every skill can get the heal treatment(scaling with stats/level). Cooldowns exist for a reason, I dont want a game where I can spam my skills as much as I want to (RO #1 flaw for me, everyone using only 1 skill because why would I bother using something not as good)

Controls: The game has been made to be played, mainly, on keyboard. Gamepad+ mouse are alternative ways of playing.

Stats: For me, almost all stats are useful. Str/int are useful late game, while dex/spr are useful early game. You pump up CON when you want to go pvp, since being a glass cannon is going to get you melted.

Classes and ranks: They are doing right, imo. Only a couple of balance issues here and there, but seems to be going in the right direction.

Itemization: The 15-40-75-120 gaps doesnt mean you’ll stay with the same gear from 75 till 120. Lets say, you dont buy the best level 75 weapon because its not on the market/the market is down/you are the first player to be at that level. So you just upgrade your inventory with whatever you start finding in maps. You get a good level 75 weapon at rukas plateau, but then you get a better level 75 weapon at royal mausoleum.

Well I kept killing more monsters than needed for the quest, so I guess I had a little bonus of exp this way, but still it’s not something that can be called “grinding”.

Yeah it’s not like skills should have no cooldown at all, but are you ok with 20+ cooldowns on usual attacking skills?

Yeah, that’s what I was talking about. I think it’s a game’s flaw and it should’ve been done the usual keyboard+mouse way.

The reason of 99% of my problems in the game tbh.

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Addition to the feedback in the 1st post.
So now I’m a 129/4 monk, if I remember right. Still no grinding in sight. Everything is going well and I’ve found even more lower level locations that I’ve skipped. Only grinded 100-107 or something like that by my own will, because this location was just so fun to grind. 2-3 levels and ~600k in recipe drops in a hour was too good to leave it like that.

Game is still pretty linear but now it heavily encourages “jumping” maps - you can’t just go always forward and feel comfy, you better TP out to other maps which suit you more and level there for a bit.

Long animations are still very annoying. When you’re fighting a boss you want to keep Deprotection zone and Monstrance up as much as possible, keep Blessing and Sacrament up at all times, keep Revive up just in case, Aspersion since +38% physical def is not a joke and cycle a Safety wall and Stone skin. That’s 8 buffs/debuffs and it takes ages to apply them all. Not to mention mass heal that also has a huge delay. But that’s not it, every ability may be useful, but is flawed in one way or another and why those flaws are placed there I have no idea. For example:

Monstrance.
There is an attribute increasing duration, too bad it also increases it’s cooldown, and that wasn’t mentioned in the tooltip, so it can’t have 100%+ uptime and it has to be recasted constantly with it’s huge animation delay. Monstrance “increases dexterity” by some mysterious amount. I think it’s bound to character’s level as it went from +18 to +35 for me, but leveling dexterity alone had no effect on it. Monstrance spawns two circles debuffing monsters in completely random places. It doesn’t seem to give more dexterity as you level it up, so it doesn’t worth it to put more than 1 point into it. So those circles are close to useless, but overall it’s a decent buff, but I don’t get why you must forbid it having a 100%+ uptime. This buff is not that great, on practice it’s barely noticable. And more detailed tooltip would be nice aswell.

Sacrament.
Weird buff that seem to scale with blessing alone. That buff makes priest a low level killing machine but after that it just gives a second hit on autoattacks (it doesn’t seem to work on abilities) increased only my monster element (dark) and buffed by blessing. It doesn’t seem to scale with weapon/armor type, player attack or anything like that. Extra damage is always nice but this buff is getting worse and worse really fast as it has zero scaling. And why does it have a cooldown? For what purpose? And why, if I leave the party I’ve casted it in, the party is left with my buff and I’m left without it? I don’t get it.

Blessing.
It’s a very good buff early as it gives lots of damage, especially when combined with sacrament. However it only scales by buying attributes and it goes up to only +170 damage and that means it wll be useless later in the game. Good thing is - it’s counted in the crits. It’s (Attack+blessing)crit bonus, not Attackcrit bonus+blessing, which is very nice. And I even understand why it only lasts 45 seconds - such a potent buff should be recasted quite often, but why does it have a cooldown again? For what purpose?

Aspersion:
+38% or more phys. def. increase on one button? I’ll take it.
Too bad that like all the other buffs I doubt you will be able to cast it in future pvp, as it takes ages to cast it.

Stone skin:
Immortality as soon as you’re doing PvE and not taking any major magic damage.

Mass heal:
Huge delay again. Why?

Double Punch:
2 stamina seems too much tbh. It’s not that potent to have any cost, as it barely differs from my autoattacks and has a longer animation. It seems like the overall dps would be the same. It also always deals Strike damage that hurts plate armor, which is a plus at least in PvE, as you can have 3 weapon types on you at a time. Slash mainhand, Pierce offhand dagger, Strike on the double punch.
Talking about stamina - maybe I’d think different about it’s stamina cost if I had more stamina, but stamina potion quests are not working for me for some reason.

Hand Knife:
Has a chance to remove enemy’s defence. That’s what tooltip says atleast. Like, remove it completely? Really? I’ll take it. I hope it can be buffed via attributes to reach 100% chance.

And yeah, controls. I know I’ll get hated on if I remember RO, but I can remember any other MMORPG with decent controls. Keyboard controls was a horrible idea. I know IMC won’t scrap it altogether and change the game to be mouse-centered, but I still have hope. It’s not even that it’s hard for me to play this way, I’m not missing my hits or anything like that, but it’s just so damn unfriendly to the user and it’s so unhandy to use, especially when you have 15+ active buttons on your bar already. And no, switching from mouse to keyboard or gamepad mode doesn’t help, it becomes even worse. And I pray to all gods that those controls will be remade, just as I hope that jumping would be removed from the game completely.

So far the biggest issue class wise is huge delays. Every ability takes 2 seconds or more to activate. They should all be casted in under 3 seconds, that’s just common sense. Let sacrament have a long cast time as it lasts 6 minutes, but all the other buffs must be casted instantly.

That’s it so far.
I came to lvl 129 as cleric-priest-priest-priest-monk and it was a breeze, not a minute of grinding was needed. It would be even easier if a damn marked would work a single damn time in my time leveling 75->129.

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You haven’t reached the grinding part of the game yet. It comes later. And it comes hard.

Currently you’re forced to save exp cards at a certain point because there’s an extreme grind deadzone at 168+

This is why I keep saying to people if you haven’t hit 160 at least, leave opinion about rates alone.
And again keep in mind level 80 will be an extremely low level when they release their level cap 600+.

I know that, I notice that I had no grind up to ~130 because people even say that they’re grinding w/o quests at lvl40, which is nonsence.