Tree of Savior Forum

My 2 cents on why trading was paywalled

General Discussion
#81

It’s gonna be no one’s playground, if they do things that majority of the community hates with passion.

Like, if I look at everything, I personally don’t care. I’ll farm out my token, I’ll use it, and farm one each month afterwards, as long as I’m playing the game, because I think the game is unplayable without a token.

I just wish developers would start being more like GGG and actually care for their game, instead of profits. Money will come if the game is good and fair to everyone and TOS is a good game, but definitely not a fair one. People, especially in the west act negatively to that and it’s only a matter of time before the population starts declining.

I don’t like playing empty mmorpgs, do you?

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#82

Did you said that? If yes then you have fundamental flaw in your logic, not to mention attitude. You trying to make a point by saying going Premium is mandatory otherwise you loose silver by trading in market. While in reality you will loose only if you buy ingridients on the market and will sell the crafting product in lower then total cost price. Thats why i said before you shouldnt mix “pay/farm” together. In which case it is perfectly viable to farm it yourself. You are not loosing mony you just getting less profit compared to Premium players due to higher tax, which means for the same amount of money you have to spend more time grinding compared to premium players, which is,(surprise!), is the whole point of premium in most f2p games.
You can argue that the system is too much pain in the bottoms to be worth it or too much grind is not to your liking, but please dont give us BS about premium being mandatory cause its not.

#83

That’s your opinion and anyone else’s who shares it.

I think that this game can’t be enjoyed without a token, thus it’s unplayable for me without it, because my goal is to enjoy and have fun.

#84

It will be up to IMC to determine whether or not players are leaving their game due to not being able to trade w/out tokens. I bet a good portion of people will be like you and work past it.

Every company cares about profits. TOS has an uphill battle compared to a game like POE due to the playerbase involved. POE effectively rode on the coattails of D2’s successes and just did everything right when Blizzard did everything wrong.

I fear that TOS would have died if it was just cosmetics. Very few games can get away with that.

#85

Are you prone to sudden memory loss, or have any special condition like sleepwalking/sleeptyping we should be aware of?

#86

How does that change anything that I’ve said?

I said token is not optional for me, so I’m getting it, with silver. Which Is what I’ve said just now.

“I think that this game can’t be enjoyed without a token, thus it’s unplayable for me without it, because my goal is to enjoy and have fun.”

THUS, I’ll be getting it with silver every month, so that I can enjoy the game and have fun.

Right now, I’m just forcing myself to get to that point and trying to be satisfied with the fact that I am allowed to swing my weapons as much as I want, because that’s the only thing that isn’t restricted.

@Remiri
I think only die hard fans will get past it. I’m pretty sure the game will just become another Asian mmorpg that will be forgotten, due to IMC’s practices.

1 Like
#87

Wtf I leave for half a day and this thread devolves into accusations and name calling?

Just did a quick skim of posts. I’ll get to some of them later.

@Skygrinder you’re a very market focused person, aren’t you? Buying low, selling high and making silver? I see why the trade restrictions are driving you insane.[quote=“Delcas, post:54, topic:179415”]
This game emphasizes using its Marketboard not trading items.
[/quote]

This. [quote=“Yashaan, post:68, topic:179415”]
That’s why I wouldn’t be against having the shout chat as a token only feature tbh.
[/quote]

Interesting point.

I was just trying to understand IMC’s stance here. Those points are what I came up with for their reasons on the restrictions. Whether the restrictions are a bad idea or not don’t change the fact that these reasons are completely valid.

Also, I like having an advantage over people? What? Prevent change for the better? I’ve played MMOs where the economy has gone absolutely batshit from inflation and I just don’t want ToS to follow them.

Ouch.
My playstyle is not your playstyle therefore my opinions are irrelevant.

Every other MMO had either Pay2Play, a huge userbase + cosmetics, or Pay2Win.

This is not about comparing ToS to other MMOs. I’m looking at the game as an individual product. If there is another MMO out there that does it better, good on them let’s all go play that then. ToS has many unique features that make it popular.

They should change that. Premium status is premium status, shouldn’t be character bound.

IMC’s practices have generally been pretty good in terms of listening to the community. I for one hope that it remains that way, instead of the negative view you seem to hold here.

#88

I don’t see your point on tokens.
On chit like Enchant Scrolls or even EXP Tomes? I think complaints are more than warranted. If you’re paying 20 bucks a month and then their selling you temporary or additional bonuses on top of that, you’re wondering why your 20$ is not a sufficient contribution that they have to hit you up with such additional costs.

But you’re complaining about the subscription that you can purchase in-game?
Not even the quality of the sub or the cost of it, but instead that the game is not as enjoyable to you without the subscription? Well no ■■■■.
Sub games don’t let you even play (outside of limited trials) without the sub.
ToS allows you to play the whole flipping game, has a sub that you don’t need to purchase with money because other players who are purchasing them will sell it to you for in-game gold.
So instead you can redirect the earnings you make in-game to the subscription, which can be peanuts if you’re savvy on working the markets.
All the people complaining about anything other then Token Price, or the token not offering enough for the amount of money they put in are whack because the Token can be obtained for 0 of your actual dollars, so if you’re a freeloader or a person who does not see sufficient value in the game to spend money on it, you can still acquire all token benefits without spending a dime.

1 Like
#89

Not really negative, just realistic. Asian mmorpgs in western market tend to be hyped and when that hype is over, it’s just forgotten.

Tree Of Savior has the potential to break away from that trend, but it won’t do it with these restrictions, because restrictions and p2w are not accepted here very well.

I’m not really the type to work the market, though I did a few times in World Of Warcraft. What I prefer to do is craft big items and sell them, but with 30% tax, it’s just not worth it.

I can’t bring myself to put it up on the market, because it feels like a huge, huge mistake every time.

Not selling anything until I get my token.

@Delcas
If you’re followed the whole thread or my posts on other threads, you would know that I’m not really arguing for my own sake, but for the sake of the future of ToS.

I am fine getting a token in-game. I think the game is unplayable without it, so I am getting it as soon as I can. More or less, I’m letting people that want the things to stay the way they are WIN, but only based on my actions in-game (buying the token with silver).

However, that doesn’t mean that I can’t say what I think is better for the game in the long run, which is why I’m arguing, really. I think a game with this kind of model in the western market can only go down.

I’ve also listed VIP features that would be somewhat more acceptable for a non-token users. It’s not like I want it to go away. I just want it to be more pay4convenience, less p2w.

My point was always that the game is not playable as f2p, not that token is out of f2p player’s reach.

2 Likes
#90

So trading is now p2w? I wasn’t aware /s
Pretty sure the trading system is controversial because it limits the social interaction, from what I’ve gathered. Would a party loot sharing function fix that? Outside of loot being distributed weirdly, there’s not much that requires trading that you can’t also do using the market.

I presume you would also be in favor of lowering the taxes on both free users and token users to, say 15% and 5%? That should keep inflation/prices low and affordable while not punishing you as hard. I crafted and sold an item today and I do have to admit 30% was quite a lot.

Also, quick question, would you prefer for them to remove the market altogether thus deleting every trace of trading in order to not half arse the trading system and also completely eliminate RMT, or completely open up the market and just let users do whatever they want besides probably the obvious RMT trading aka direct silver trades?

#91

If you think the game is unplayable without it, you’re essentially saying its a sub game that has a very open free demo.

#92

That’s pretty much what it is in my opinion. If I can’t compete in every aspect of the game, I’m playing a demo, while they’re not.

Using market as it is on f2p is a waste of your time, effort and a loss of silver if you consider how much an item is actually worth, compared to what you’re getting for it and what token users are getting for it.

If token wasn’t available for purchase with silver, I wouldn’t even play the game right now. Even though I’m quite a die hard fan of ToS and it would be extremely hard to let go.

Literally, what I’m playing for right now is to get a token, that’s what I’m playing for. I’m frustrated with their shitty model and all I’m focused on is getting a token, so I can actually start enjoying the game again, like I did in iCBTs.

The reason why I think not everyone will accept this and just go on until they get the token is because the price for token will rise as we move forward and it will be extremely hard for a new player to reach it. These things tend to be overpriced after a while, too. I’m expecting that, which will further push away the players from the game. Maybe even some that were earning silver for it, after 2-3 months will just decide that it costs too much at that point to continue grinding for them.

@timothyc131
I’ve listed above what would be acceptable for me, I’ll copy/paste it.

"They could’ve at least made a reasonable VIP.

- 0% commission for token users, 10% for f2p.
- 2 attributes training at once for both token and f2p, but 50% faster training for token users.
- 3 runs of dungeon for both token and f2p players, but 25% lower cooldown for entries for token players.
- Trading open for everyone, 100% (It’s absurd to restrict trading, basic mmorpg feature)
- 30% xp gain is fine
- 5 market slots for f2p players, 10 or more for token users."

That’s what I wrote. Yes, 30% is a lot.

I’d rather have an auction house, and trade just being a trade for items.

But ideally, I’d like an alternative system to deal with gold sellers, like captcha checks every hour or two. (which can get annoying, but it’s a much better solution to be fair to everyone in my opinion)

1 Like
#93

  • I’d say 20% for non users and 0% for users. There is no point indeed in creating a money sink in the AH like they did. It just inflates the prices unnecessarily, but there is to be a good incentive to get the token. 20% is less than 30 but you still prefer getting no tax at all ofc :wink:

  • Nah, I think that the attribute thing isn’t a problem, so I’d say to not change it. Let’s be honest, you don’t really need to have two of them at the same time. And the time isn’t prohibitive. Here, the problem is the silver.

  • Here again, I don’t think that the dungeons are that bad. Yeah, it’s a good way to farm, but with just 2 dungeons a day you can do nicely. I’d keep it as it is since changing the timers would be kind of difficult for IMC, and may cause some bugs.

  • Agreed, but only items, no silver. All silver transaction should go through the AH.

  • Agreed

  • Agreed too.

  • I’d add the shout function, restricted to token only. Should remove the worst of it once the game goes FTP

  • Movement speed is ok, it’s nice but not significant enough to be an advantage in PVP

  • Some VIP poses/emotes maybe?

  • Getting the free TP twice faster ?

And lowering the price of the enchant scroll to 5 TP. This way, it’s not really a pay to win anymore.

2 Likes
#94

I don’t know, I think 10% for tax is the highest acceptable rate in my opinion.

Scrolls for 5 tokens would be cool, yeah.

#95

Well I rather most limitations get removed and have the game changed to B2P (Black Desert Online cough cough)

I said most, cause there are others who argue IMC cannot profit from selling cosmetics alone (and that could be true).

That’s my 2 cents on this matter. :slight_smile:

#96

Yeah, would’ve been a much better option. Too late for it now, though.

#97

I think the first thing IMC should do though is to rethink the price of the tokens. 20$ is far too much.

#98

And why do people complain about potentials? It is only good that an item cant be in the market forever. The market would soon be saturated and nothing would be worth anything except for the overpriced godly items. This keeps the incentive to farm and craft items on.

#99

Even if token is a form of subscription the price is just ridiculous compared to other titles in the MMO market and I’m talking about the big ones.

#100

Op your opinion is irrelevant because you dont use trading in your play stayel. So you cant come here and say things on somthing you dont use and dont understand. Its dont work like this.