This keeps coming to me that I feel a fun grinding encounter would be a team of players fighting a single monster that has a few mechanics or requires some strategy to beat, even plain tank and spank can have many strategical elements involved. FF11 keeps coming back to me as having the best mmo grinding mechanics.
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The elites in this game are so bad, theyâre just immune to CC. Oh boy such a challenge! Theyâve could of made something great with these so called elites.
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Me, ranting about implementation again:
Zenimax liked to brag about their AI teamwork mechanics in ESO, like a mage setting an oil slick on fire and whatnot. But Zenimax had a poor implementation of AI teamwork, the actions were handled on some very simple if->then booleans and lacked any randomization or complexity. If you saw an oil slick on the ground, even if you werenât standing anywhere near it, you could bet it was going to be lit on fire (what a waste of the AIâs time). In the end, you didnât have to worry about any AI teamwork because the results of any of these teamwork events was insignificant.
What would have been awesome is if any ranged attackers could target a player that was intercepting a mage or healer and either focus fire or try to push the player back, with melee AI getting in the way to protect the ranged/support, and the ranged/support retreating.
This isnât that complicated, just send some distress signal from the distressed AI character, then the appropriate AI characters change targets to the intercepting player, melee AI characters position themselves between the distressed AI and the player. In terms of programming difficulty EZPZ
Mostly Iâm talking about giving the AI the ability to adjust their own strategy (as a team, not a solo AI sprinting off screen looking for a heal tile).
AI teamwork would encourage player teamwork. You would counter this AI behavior by having a tank alongside the intercepting player, shedding the hits from the protecting AI, shoving the AI tanks out of the way, etc. People can come up with a ton of strategies for any one encounter but itâs the dynamic AI behavior that makes the encounters fun.
Currently in ToS (and most other MMOs) you kite the melee, you nuke the ranged dps, you gimp the healers, then you continue to dance around the melee. Of course some variation per MMO; WoW would not let you outrun the melee dps, no, you are forced to dps race with them and the ranged while you nuke the healers first and foremost.
Another thing comes to mind: Wandering AI
Ragnarok had AI that was not limited to an invisible fenced area; it also had (relatively speaking) incredibly powerful and rarer monsters that were mixed in with the usual mob fodder. This was probably my favorite thing about the game. The potential for all the monsters in a map to pile onto 1 player created a fantastic dynamic that kept the player in a hunter mental state. You had to avoid large crowds of enemies (unless you had a team) and select and stalk prime targets. In the Hidden Temple dungeon (RO dungeons were not instanced), the big bad was the damn Hunter Fly that teleported around the map and gimped the â â â â out of new players; It was a great training ground for learning the different monster types and encounters.
Ragnarok Online could really only do this because the monsters were GIF billboards. Nowadays, the polycount would skyrocket and the fps would plummet. But, dammit, I want wandering AI again.
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I hate that our monsters are limited to an area. Iâd love to be able to move the whole map density to a single spot and kill them all at once! with all the consequences that means! Growling would shine mwahaha!
But yeah, bring challenge pls.
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Hmm, wouldnât it be better, if they just improve the AI?
I am mean why to do something like this if the AI will remain the same.
Change how the mobâs movement are and make the AI Human-Like so that it does not become a punching bag like it is now.
Example;
Boss attacks player
Player uses the skill " Fire Pillar" boss moves out of pillar range?
or
(Dynamic Battle System)
Boss uses Environment to attack players.
Players must think of a way to defeat the enemy.
Boss adapts to players strategy (Gets harder) and so on.
But we know IMC will put a KO move to skill rotation (Lvl 115 dungeon cough)
Just some ideas that could make it challenging/ annoying
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My answer is: Yes
the team doing the costumes is not the one fixing the bugs
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Making those suggestions brings me also to an idea that they should increase instance in ET make it 3/3 atleast.
Itâs my belief that all dungeon caps should be removed for Token users (indirectly increasing the value of the Token; IMC makes more money, hopefully becoming more motivated to fix stuff). Adding silver trading into Token benefits is good tooâŚ
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And thus inflation.
On an unrelated note, I do love how they went full 180 on the trade market restrictions. On their attempted RMT witch hunt they just threw sticks onto the dark managing only to hit legit players when grabbing the sticks, when stretching the arm to throw it, ricochet onto another and then land onto the dark.
Letâs not bring this here though guilty myself. letâs not taint nekorins pristine OP. Lets save it for when he touches this topic.
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Seems like a sensible solution, lacks too much insane. come back again with a worse one, but lets seriously can it for now.
Can we tag staffs here?
@STAFF_Max @STAFF_Amy @STAFF_John
I am not good with words so I am simply astonished by this compiled and arranged suggestion
Takes months to be implemented but what I would like to hear isâŚPlease at least let developer team know about this
which is why this thread exist. Donât say that as joke please 
we are all know what is the current ToS and this is one of the constructive and aspiring post that you wonât find easily. Nekorin is one of the forum user that I see always being objective.
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Wow is exactly like that
Please just think anything else than âHuman Like AIâ, or Very Smart AI, they couldnt even find the druid bug in more than a year now, how could IMC possibly make such AI.
@Composition
Hopefully I can keep it at 1 section/chapter per week. Have the skeletons ready just need to write them out.
@Alyu_aint_short
Yeah I hope so too. Some confirmation from them will be really nice though. :3
@LunarRabbit
I do believe that IMC is gradually adding more skills to the monsters we face as the we get higher ranks of content.
If Boss-Lachrymator gets a nod from from the devs, do hope that it will be a Lv.3 debuff though. Love the idea of having more debuffs from bosses so that other classes other than the usual PD can get to shine. Yep knockback/down should go through immunity.
@Sensate & @Latte0
Not really wishing those to be nerfed totally/too much though, these skill combos are something which is unique to the classes. Yes some alterations is needed for this, perhaps something like skills only start their cooldown after finish channelling might help. This will affect other channeling skills though such as Kagura Dance, but those cooldown timings can be tweaked to reflect the change. Making them a lot harder to pull off might be better imo, so players can still enjoy that moment of joy when they finally get it to work.
It is like in MTG (Magic the gathering) technically one can pull off the Fifth Dawn station infinite combo when they managed to get the 4 stations out, but due to counters by opponent(s) it is often hard or rare to even see it in action. Lowering consistency/rate of success is often a good way to create more engaging plays. The shift in thinking from âWe donât have any combosâ to âHey we have this really hard Ausrine/Melstis combo, maybe if we work together and everyone be aware of sudden counters we might just get to maintain it for 30+ secsâ generates more teamwork.
@Nirimetus
Yeah, hopefully in the new content patches we get to see mobs utilising more skills. For me ToS is a good game, I hardly see any other MMO that can come close to the action style of gaming ToS has with similar style of graphics, music and animation. Granted that it is currently still unpolished but as long as IMC do take in ideas from the community into consideration, it might turn out to be a gem in time to come (Thatâs me being optimistic :3 ).
@chillcross
Yep, a good balance between normal mobs which are made to be fodders (like the Musou series) and monsters that can keep players engaged and thinking is the best.
Like what @Composition said, I like WB Rexipherâs encounter the most. It is certainly irritating, and for a period of time I refused to fight it due to the SP drain (Iâm poor and SP pots are ex for me). But, it is a monster worth being called a World Boss.
Blut⌠on the other hand, needs more work to reach Rexyâs level. Devaluation + Lachrymator will certainly make Blut really engaging to fight.
Abominationâs Reflect is powerful, how I wish the cue for it being activated is more obvious though.
@lunettesrouges
Hmm, I stopped WoW at Wrath of the Lich King though. WoW has many great scripted events/boss fights which we can learn and draw inspiration from.
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Have to split into 2 posts as there is a limit of 10max users mention in a single post⌠:X
@NotSoAccurateNo1, @Latte0, @Composition
I too do feel that ET/Solmiki isnât end content (or rather isnât of end content calibre), it feels like a bandaid to quickly insert something for PVE players to do so that IMC can buy more time to create new content.
Imo it is a disservice to say ET/Solmiki doesnât have any strategy involved, there are still some form of teamwork and strategy needed to clear the levels. But these are vastly overshadowed by the Cheesemelts and the heavy emphasis on having high gear+enchance+transcendence level requirements. I think once some form of countermeasures to playersâ strategies is implemented on monsters, ET/Solmiki will become genuinely hard again.
I too like MH series, it is a game where the player really have to learn the habits and cues on the bosses to actually stand a chance at fighting them. It is a really balanced game which has a huge following. Haiz, if only other games like Toukiden series can reach the same finesse as MH.
In terms of mob AI implementation for ToS, I think the reason why IMC chose to âfence up monsters to their spawn zonesâ as a measure to minimise griefing. In RO as far as I remember there are players who like to do mob trains, tagging every single monster and just hide/teleport once they hit a player populated area (Alarms train anyone?).
@MirAlex, @riseba
AI improvement is certainly a good way to make things more engaging to players. Environment triggered attacks might be hard to implement for world bosses though. Love the idea of bosses adapting to players strategies. Just being able to change location of fight makes a huge difference especially when skills like Melstis and many ground spells are stationary.
âHuman like AIâ is a tall order for games in general though, AI becoming too âsmartâ will make the game too hard to even play.
@Y100Grand
Certainly like the idea of restricting silver and loot drop for more DG runs. Perhaps these additional runs can be set to have diminishing experience gains (eg. 15% lesser exp per extra run over the limit) so that DGs and missions wouldnât be too favored as the levelling mode of choice over questing.
The only challenge I foresee in implementing this is how will IMC implement it when a random party is made up of players of different number of runs since not everyone has the same DG count upon entry.
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