Tree of Savior Forum

Murmillo - Hoplite vs Peltasta comparison

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

Hi,

I thought about doing a Hoplite variation of Murmillo and decided to do some number crunching. Either way, we have to take all 3 circles of Rodelero in order to get High Kick, Slithering and Shooting Star or we end up sacrificing too much damage. We could ignore two cricles of Rodelero and take Peltasta instead, but it doesn’t work out very well, because both Synchro Trusting and Butterfly scale with Strike, which means that the damage is bad, really bad.

Anyway, it seems that 3xPelt/3xRode/Murmillo costs less, because you have to level up one less attribute and you don’t have to invest anything into the shield. You can also ignore armour on demand. Hoplite on the other hand does similar damage and while rotation is much harder to pull off, you do get +3 AOE attack, +20% block and +100 critical chance in return.

Overall, I’m sticking to Pelt, because Hoplite doesn’t seem worth it to me.

NOTE: I used ridiculous values for gear and I ignored armour values, which Pelt can ignore anyway.

PS: The Pelt build can also include Umbo/Rim Blow, which should both hit for around 235630.425 (471260.85 overheat), while Hopelite can’t.

1 Like
#2

I think you providing “ridiculous values” as base will bring 0 to the table.
Is better work wih an average value.

I could understand your table(took me some time), but I must say it was bad designed. Some parts need a REAL separator.

You must take in consideration damage cap is 199k. Providing numbers highter can suggest a bad use of your stats and gears.

#3

Sorry, this post was meant purely as a reference point for people deciding if they should go for Hop build, nothing more. Damage can’t seriously be capped at 199k, if so, some rank 9 classes will be completely useless? I am doing an endgame comparison, but even then, the damage ratio remains within a couple of %.

1 Like
#4

With r9(murmillo c2) we will bother even less with lower rank skills to dealing damage. Lets say with murmillo c2 you can get rid of peltasta skill to dealing damage.

I would say is safe we work with what we have now. Theorycraft about next ranks can be frustated.

#5

or they can buff the attribute bonus from sub ranks with helmet@murm, to keep using a lower rank skills, who knows.

#6

What you prefer? dealing damage with a skill with less than 300 damage or with a skill with 8k+?

This is what we can expect in murmillo c2. Strike path has a future granted.

Lets take a look at fencer. Fencer c1 in cbt was really lackluster and was required to rely on a good skill set based on early ranks. With rank 7, fencer become a stand alone class. With rank 8 fencer was heavly buffed and no matters what class you take in early ranks, your can rest on your fencer skills.

Stack buffer classes is the way to go.

#7

this is true, like i almost every time aim for sub classes buffs only to improve late game ranks dmg, like crit chance, strike dmg or whatever synergies with higher ranks.

#8

i say i like his idea for pointing this out in the forums, the numbers used might be high but we get the idea, heck, i want to make a 3rd murm right now to try new combinations to prove my theories hahaha

1 Like
#9

I would say that the Pelt3/Rod3 path is the most future proof. Primarily because of Armorbreak, Swash Buckling and % based Guardian.

Though the main part is the Armorbreak, since Mobs will not get less armor as the lvls increase …

The only Hoplite+Murmillo Route I currently see is the one I got, which is SW1 Pelt1 Hop1 Rod3 Shinobi Murm. Since clones can use Syncrothrusting and get counter multiplier. Which amounts to similar Values as Shooting Star if you Counter. Also you get to use Spears which more often than not have AoE Ratio on them or crit. While you lose only Finestra should you pickup a sword. Its a fun build but freaking expensive …

#10

I asked this before, but how do you trigger Counter on Synchro Thrusting?

#11

You attack during an enemy attack.

#12

Give up now. I finally reached murmillo and was able to test the attribute on cassis crista. It doesn’t work the way anyone theorycrafted.

Right now I don’t know if its bugged or not but IT ONLY MULTIPLIES THE SKILL’S BASE DAMAGE. But I also have a feeling that it’s intentional given the multipliers and the skills’ base damage numbers. It would bring all of pelt and rode’s skills to 2-3k base damage. The problem is that no other skills work like this (except effigy I think?).

My umbo damage went from 2k to 3.5k ish on cloth after putting on the helmet. My skill was level 6 with enhance at 50 and the numbers fit exactly after calculating. I was so disappointed I lost all urge to play since I had instantly spent all my silver for this.

My other real disappointment is why no other murmillo have tried testing this. This makes cassis a lot less effective and non-rode murmillos weak since the attributes are in actuality, giving base damage instead of multipliers.

3 Likes
#13

Sounds about right.

While equipped with Cassis Crista, Peltastas’ Rim Blow, Umbo Blow, Shield Lob Umbo Thrust skill attack damage increases by 40% per attribute level.

While equipped with Cassis Crista, Rodelero's skill damage for Shield Charge, Targe Smash, Shield Push, Shield Shove and Shield Bash increases by 20% per attribute level.

While equipped with Cassis Crista, skill attack damage for Peltasta’s Butterfly and Rodelero’s Shooting Star increases by 15% per attribute level.

While equipped with Cassis Crista, skill attack damage for Hoplite’s Synchro Thrusting increases by 28% per attribute level.

Well, I don’t get why they’re so expensive though tbh.

#14

The issue is consistency.

When equipped with [One-handed Spear], combating a medium-sized enemy increases your skill damage by 4% per attribute level.

This works in a completely different way.

They only justification is that there’s “skill attack damage” in the description but how do you distinguish it from skill damage when almost every other thing in the game works otherwise.

Also the cassis attributes for rode don’t say “skill attack damage” but I’m pretty sure they work the same way also.

It’s obviously bait to make us think the attribute is better than we thought. /salt

(The cost is consistent for all classes though, so it isn’t really murmillo specific. It’s like why thauma attributes cost like 10m total. Most utility attributes cost the same per level at X rank.)

#15

Hm … now I think I will try how this works with Syncro Thrusting, since the strike dmg takes 5times your shields def + a low base dmg. What gets scaled up?

#16

I think the sapper’s new attributes increase only the skill damage as well. Yes, the hoplite’s spear attribute is one of a kind. The first one like that was rapier’s aggression in which I personally tested and confirmed it with eternaldream. Took me so many tests because damages were not clicking at all when I assumed it as one of the common or target modifiers. Not to mention by not knowing this, epee garde and preparation modifiers were unclear. The only difference is that people actually have to pay so much silver to confirm murmillo attributes so RIP lol.

#17

hoplite is better on a dragoon build.
Even though synchro can be strong, rodelero is just stronger and requires less expenses.
Making synchro strong enough requires a very enhanced shield with high transcendence.

#18

you can always try to go hop2>rod3>murm imo.murm still has that evade thrust which is pierce you can exploit. so after your strike skills you can use pierce skills.

#19

Can you share your stats and some screen shots?
Since after that video, we can say without headbutt debuff, you will do a really crap damage with peltasta skills.

So for peltasta skill do a good damage you need AT LEAST 3 differents multiplies because low skill attack + low PA = low damage.

Murmillo was not really designed to dealing damage. The silver you spend in murmillo skills if you spend in another class you will really outdps him EASY. Murmillo was created for endurance mode.

#20

In my experience as PeltHopRod3ShnMurm, playing with Pelt3Rod3Murm in PVE I still did better in damage and on my tanking is on par with them. Given that I have a good pdef and mdef. I only upgraded the Shooting Star attribute in CC, but in the future will plan to upgrade the hoplite attribute of CC.
I am in crossroads in whether I should craft the 1 handed orange spear for better damage or 1 handed swords which gives 300 mdef or 275 pdef . It’s either damage + aoe ratio vs MDEF/PDEF. I am planning to spend all my silver first in transcending that item.

Any thoughts and opinion about which is a better option for a weapon?

BTW Serpentine debuff is very OP in combination with Bunshin and Strike debuff from our class. I reach a burst of around 3M+ with one full skill rotation.