Tree of Savior Forum

Murmillo and High Guard

really depends on your build, if you really want to tank, the percentage increase of def from guardian is good. but people mostly put 1 there only for the guardian evasion attribute w/c is 18% evasion. thats pretty big for a 1 point wonder

Is 100% base damage worth an entire Rodelero circle tho?
But one thing that bugs me about DontMindMe’s equation:

Umbo Blow + High Guard Attribute + Cassis Crista supposedly do 730% damage base damage, or base +630%, 6500+630%=47450

BUT, shouldn’t Slithering/High Kick/Headbutt +250% pierce debuff multiply with the previous number? In other words 47450+250%=166075?

I don’t understand how weakness to pierce only effects the base value of the skill, without including skill attributes? Basically, all 3 debuffs add a total damage of 22750? That seems ridiculously bad. If that is true, we are taking en ENTIRE circle for additional 6500 damage, if the pierce damage multiplies ALL of the previous damage, then that circle is at least worth 47450 additional damage.

Also, why does the Umbo Blow attribute apply LAST? Shouldn’t it be included with all of the rest of Umbo Blow attributes? So base 100% + 630% + 100% attribute?

if you look at his presented calculation, there was nothing multiplicative, only additive, adding all the attributes from high guard, casis crista and the debuffs, we get around 830%

i am unsure as well why the modifier is 230% if the description says its 330%.

rod3 is 200% more damage so yes, getting rod3 i think is a must. you dont really need to be pelt if you want to go murm but i think rod3 is a must

edit: regarding the skill attribute, i think its always on the final output that why he multiplied it after. im no genius in this matter but im assuming thats what it is.

still, according to the computations, from 6500, you get 127400 after all those gruesome calculations… its pretty big :slight_smile:

That’s just it, 127400 seems low. That calculation is done with 100% attributes, that’s like 60 million worth of attributes. For me the reasonable assumption would be ((Base+630%)+250%)+100% or 332150.

If your attack does 47450+100% or 94900 and you DEBUFF the mob, to take 100% additional pierce damage, that additional damage should be 94900 not 6500 o.O.

Not sure if you understand, but it the equation works as he suggested, then we are looking at this:

6500+880%=63700 or in other terms, your 250% only attributed 2,5*6500 = 16250 damage, or 32500 with 100% attribute. Or to put it in a different perspective, you took an entire Rodelero circle, so that your Skills can hit for an additional 6500 damage, with a weapon worth 500 million. There is no chance in hell weakness to pierce works like that?

I’m also unsure about the 330% vs 230% attribute, I’m going to test it in the next hour.

Did some testing and I got no ■■■■■■■ clue what’s going on, but it seems as the Strike vs Plate bonus doesn’t apply to the bonus attribute damage.

VS PLATE -62def:
+0% Umbo Blow does 450 average damage and with High Guard +“330%” attribute it hits for 1100 average damage, basically an increase of +140%

VS LEATHER -48def:
+0% Umbo Blow does 240 average damage and with High Guard +“330” attribute it hits for 950 average damage, basically an increase of +296%.

If we assume that Strike does +50% vs Plate, then 450/1,5 = 300 base damage. 300+230% = 990 bonus damage +150 damage from weakness to strike, we get at 1140 damage. Which seems about right? But what the hell is going out with Leather. If we assume that the base damage is 300, and strike gets -25% penalty vs leather, than the damage is spot on at 300/1.25=240. What I don’t understand is, why do we get a +300% bonus.

I didn’t go through all numbers, but you’re being pretty unrealistic with the 6.5k base atk weapon there. I said 500m back there but that number is way off. His weapon (in the video) is worth more than 50b…

Even if he had infinite money, all the blessed shards you’d need to make your weapon reach max transcend stage would require you to wipe out all blessed shards from the market… several times…

And we’re not even considering the actual probability of success in higher level stages…

His weapon also has not one but three level 8 gems. That’s probably nothing compared to the cost of the blessed shards, but just one of those gems might be worth around the money to max all murmillo attributes (around 60m i’d guess?)…

So… You might be overlooking the extra damage from Slithering / High Kick debuffs and also overlooking skills base atks due to the abysmal atk on end-game weapons you’re considering…

Also, just going to mention his weapon actually has 5k atk and not 6.5k.

I have an Oghma Gauntlet but I think the bonus is only +25% dmg against Leather and it doesn’t really negate the strike dmg to leather weakness. I prefer to use Vubbe Fighter Gloves for extra AoE atk ratio, overall gives me more dps.

I have ohgma and demonas and I can say it can negate that penalty. Already tested. Anyway:

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You are now discussing details that aren’t even worth discussing. I am using 6500 for the sake of the argument and his base damage could actually be higher. Also, 50 billion, if you can grind 2 million silver per day, you can buy enough shards to transcend a weapon to +10 in 5 months. Better weapons are coming eventually, so it’s worth future proofing your builds.

The question was, are we really taking an entire circle for an additional 6500 damage? And if we ignore the high base damage and go with a standard of, what 1200, are we really taking High Kick to deal 1200 additional damage.

Also attributes seem to be broken, for Umbo Blow at least:

Those percentages you listed are relative values. You’re counting them after the armor multiplier. Apply it to the base value and it falls in line.

#####With high guard:
vs plate = 280% (230+50)
300 * 3.8 = 1140

vs leather = 205% (230-25)
314 * 3.05 = 958

Without high guard on, you should see about twice the damage done to plate compared to leather since you’re going from 0.75 to 1.5. Oghma does negate the penalty since it brings the modifier up to 100%(+25%) vs leather - though I’m not sure if it’s 25% increase for all versions of the glove(white/blue/purple).

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When I got my gauntlets os slashing(when they was introduced on itos), the additional damage was a little bit highter(like a 12%~14%), but with demonas, I could feel I was dealing more damage. I’m waiting for a dehvling recipe to see if will deal the same amout of damage as demonas.

The big deal this gauntlets is the 2 socket. Like Shade Greaves(update from Superior Korvos) is 2 sockets too.

That makes sense, but doesn’t that also mean that all of the strike/pierce debuffs are essentially useless in this game? It’s different with a skill such as Dethrone, because if your base damage is sitting at 19k, you gain 9500 damage vs leather. But low base skills combined with weak weapons? What’s the point of taking Slithering, High Kick and Headbutt?

Let’s take Butterfly for example, does 250% weakness to strike increases it’s base damage by a whopping 10416, without the 100% Butterfly attribute?

I don’t even care about looking stupid anymore at this point, the values in this game are completely absurd.

What can save murmillo is if cassis crista being a Common modifier at least.
Because if all modifiers belongs to the same tier, murmillo will be a really underwhelming and expensive class.

If some one here has a murmillo and can provide me some numbers, I can make the things clear.

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It really depends on how you’re building your murmillo. If you go all in on modifiers, you will start seeing diminishing returns. This applies more so to skills that are boosted by cassis crista.

For rodelero, the saving grace is that murmillo has skills at a decent base so their debuffs still help for those skills. But yes, they won’t actually boost pelt skills that much so if you’re building around that, other class choices might be more viable.

Also it’s not that bad with the multihit skills since butterfly and shooting star only get +150% from cassis. With all the debuffs, while it may not be 3.5x boost, you’re still getting 2.4x.

Dragoon seems like a much better alternative to me atm. Using the same logic:

Dethrone 5 - 16570 base + 2000 from stats
Spear Lunge + 100%
Serpentine +100%

100% Attribute=111420
And it’s fairly easy to reach 90%+ crit rate, so 2x 167130 total on a 15sec CD, with none of the drama, well other than wasting 328.488.673 silver on 100% attribute xD. This game just sucks overall.

So the Silver lining is to ignore Umbo Blow / Rim Blow completely, focus on Butterfly and Shooting Star + Murmillo skills.

Yes that’s what people generally do.

I’m still doing otherwise though. (Keep in mind I didn’t take rode) Also because I want to see if I can hit my other theorycrafted numbers.

Your murmillo is done or on the way?

Almost there, currently 262.

I did some math including all in the same modifier and cassis crista as a common modfier.
Butterfly 5 = 992
PA = 1000
CA = 400
All in the same modifier + slithering + high kick:
Normal = 8964
Critical = 15246

Cassis crista as a Common mod + slithering + high kick:
Normal = 14940
Critical = 25410

Everything with 0 enhancement.

i have a murm, but its not a petl3 one so i really cant compute much on the high guard attribute. its really confusing anyway, and that high guard as well give you reduced attack.

umbo and rim blow for me are just filler skills anyway while you wait for your big skills and debuffs to cool down.

High Guard is a Pelt2 attribute tho.

You’re a rodelero 3? If yes, you can make a test.

If you have time, can you test something?
If yes, buy a lv1 weapon, use high guard, note your PA with high guard active.
Tell us your cassis crista attribute for your skill used, high guard attribute, your skill level used and use a striker booster like high kick or slithering.