Tree of Savior Forum

Math argument offshoot of Nerfing Linker Thread

Off-Topic
#21

Why are you so against calculation the worth of casting a given skill? Yes, you can generalize blessing to ‘in a nutshell…’

But you can also apply a formula to it. Which I did. and I gave you a solid number of how much damage it deals on average.
In practice sure, things might get wonky. Low level blessing is much more likely to hit it’s max hits than higher level blessing is. but as a guess? My formula gives a much more accurate guess than yours does merely because its a direct step closer to an actual answer.

A force multiplier is a damage skill. If you never cast it, there would be less damage. All this formula work is to give a general idea of how much damage it will be responsible for.

#22

This guy is totally out of his mind. Seems so hard to explain anything to him haha…

#23

I left out:
A is close to B, so assume A = B
You may also read this as: A is within 10^1 to 10^-1 of B in every example, so A=B for our purposes.

#24

Hey, I’ve said four times in this thread.

Write a function y where Y= total damage per second dealt by Joint penalty, and X= uses per second of Joint penalty.

#25

A is not close to B because B = 2 (for AoE, for single target then B = 2 to 15), always !!

Let’s do this

If you cast AoE skill with skill damage of 100 on a monster with MAtk 400, each of them will get hit 500 damage. With link they will get another hit of 500 damage. That’s 500 + 500.

If you use AoE 20 times the damage is going to be (500 * 20) + (500 * 20) or essentially (500 * 20) * 2

If you use your formula, you are assuming (500 * 20) * 20 which is not the case!

1 Like
#26

a force multiplier is a force multiplier. And because of that it DOESNT multiply itself on multiple uses. Dont try to switch definitions here.
It doubles OVERALL damage in case of AoE compared to hitting similar group of enemies without JP (if number of enemies in group is greater or equal 2 and less or equal to maximum number of JP targets).
And i’ve put formula for single target skills already.

1 Like
#27

Sure, but the damage Joint Penalty is directly responsible for is…

#28

X uses/second - what is this shiet? where did it come from? Please dont add multipliers that dont exist in game reality.

A(damage/use) * B(use/second) = DPS(damage/second)
DPS(damage/second) * Duration(second) = Total(damage)

for single target skills Overall damage will be:
Total(damage) + Total(damage)*(#linked-1) assuming that there always were linked mobs for whole Duration of that sustained DPS. Also note that this Overall damage is NOT to EACH target, but evenly spread among #linked targets - each #linked target got Total(damage).

#29

Let’s take the mathematical approach here. I may be wrong, but this is how it looks to me…

Case 0: Damage.
x = skill damage dealt using the damage formula presented by Eternal and friends.
y = total damage dealt.

x = y.

Case 1: AOE with Joint Penalty.
x = skill damage dealt.
y = total damage dealt.
n = number of targets affected by Joint Penalty inside the AOE.
m = number of targets affected by Joint Penalty outside the AOE.

2xn + xm = y for values of n greater than 1. For values of n less than or equal to 1, use single target formula.

Case 2: Single Target with Joint Penalty.
x = skill damage dealt.
y = total damage dealt.
n = number of targets affected by Joint Penalty.

xn = y

I don’t quite understand how you see Joint Penalty as being an exponential damage increase to anything, when it’s clearly not. Joint Penalty is outside the damage calculation entirely and only spreads the damage dealt. I also don’t quite understand why skill uses matter at all when calculating damage dealt. That’s more a measure of DPS than damage dealt.

One last point so that I don’t have to post it in the other thread; it’s stupid to balance the Linker based on the skills from other class archetypes. Linker should be balanced around the Wizard classes only.

#30

I was going to post something because this is totally wrong but may be @nizidr and @Defect already done a great job there. If you still don’t agree then may be you don’t understand how JP actually works.

#31

X is casts of Joint penalty/second. It isn’t a passive skill, you have to cast it. Like you say, dps is damage/use * uses/second.

Follow the units, it all cancels out.

Linker is the only class that can multiply the damage of other classes. You should probably consider what other classes do around linkers.

#32

I think this formula fits your scenarios 1 and 2:

x = skill damage dealt.
y = total damage dealt.
a = aoe modifier (0 = single target, 1 = aoe)
n = number of targets affected by Joint Penalty inside the AOE.
m = total number of targets affected by Joint Penalty

axn + xm = y

1 Like
#33

Doensn’t matter. JP either is applied, or not. Neither does it stack, nor does it deal damage itself.

It is not important how often you do/can cast it, because if you wanted to do that you would also have to respect the damage of all other sources in your formula.

#34

Your N doesn’t really come in to play. That isn’t damage dealt by Joint Penalty.

That’s like saying the second cast of Meteor doesn’t matter because everything is dead when it lands.
If your first JP is still running when cooldown comes off, just cast it on something else. It does effect dps.

We are respecting all sources of damage, in a general way. The (A * B * #linked) bit is a general statement for damage, that should really be a list of A * B * linked + C * D * linked +… etc.

#35

I thought it’s obvious that we’re discussing the damage on the same group of mobs. Of course you can make more use of a second group of mobs that also has the JP status than casting it on the same group again, but under which circumstances does that actually benefit you? Most AOEs are not going to hit both groups of monsters so your party would have to basically deal double damage if you want to double the JP damage. Help me out if I got mechanics wrong here.

#36

You are bad at math then and this thread is pointless because you are arguing for the sake of arguing and dont want to listen to other people.

That means the death and probably expulsion of such linker from a party: why would you want to aggro (with link) another pack of monsters when 1st (linked) pack is still alive and most skills of your party are on CD?

#37

The thread this stems from argues that joint penalty isn’t terribly useful, as most grinding is done with on single bosses or on groups of 30+ trash.

I figure that if they can have a constant cloud of 30+ monsters in their flame ground and frost cloud, we can dream a little as well.
Plus it tends to be the nearest X monsters get linked, aiming it away from the last group shouldn’t be terribly hard.

#38

How many skills can hit 30+ mobs with one use?

#39

Basically everything elementalist uses.

#40

Assuming best case scenario where every monster is inside the AOE, and the monster mhp is almost equal.

x = AOE damage dealt
y = total damage dealt by joint penalty
z = single target damage dealt
n = number of targets affected by Joint Penalty.
y = x + z(n-1)

Also, y will never exceed the total hp of linked monster minus the highest hp of linked monster.