Master Classes would be a great addition to the game

[rivayir]

I realize that with Rebuild we sort of already have master classes since the class circle system is gone and every class is kinda at its full potential when you choose it and level it to skill level 45, but I was always a fan of the master class concept and think it could still be implemented into the game now as a sort of super endgame PVE mechanic / grinding incentive for veteran and new players alike.

Here’s the baseline:

1. You’re allowed to change into the master class of one of your class choices

Even base classes should be included here for more build variety.

2. You’ll get a special costume

Self-explanatory
Who doesn’t like costumes? The customes should give you special animations and they should have small visual effects to set them apart from other classes.

3. You’re not allowed to change your master class selection through the class change option or through other means

Tree of Savior is very forgiving when it comes to selecting and changing your classes and builds, so in this instance your master circle choice should be final and you should not be able to change to make your choice have meaning. Many MMORPG Players also like this kind of thing and are turned off by a game being too forgiving with resets. It can even be done similarly to base class resets who are given out very rarely.

4. Master class skills overview

4a. Every master class will get 3 new skills
4b. Master class skills are tied to a new bar called MP meaning you need MP to cast them instead of SP
4c. MP can only be recovered over time and not through any other means
4d. The MP bar is maxed out at a certain amount
4e. Each master class skill uses different amounts of MP
4f. Master class skills can have a maximum of 2 overheats
4g. Certain master class skills can replenish your MP faster and / or increase the max amount for a certain period of time
4h. Additional master class skills might be added with future updates
4i. Every master class skill has a max level of 5
4j. The master class is unlocked immediately after you reach class level 45 of your 3rd class choice
4k. This max skill level is displayed as a 3rd exp bar called “MCS Level”
4l. The MCS Level is maxed out at level 15
4m. The MCS Level can’ be increased with normal EXP cards
4n. The MCS Level can only be increased by killing monsters or obtaining special MCS Exp Cards from class master quests, Mercenary quests, killing monsters in lvl 420+ maps, etc.
4o. The MCS Level requires much more exp to level up than the max base and class levels
4p. There will be no shop related master class skills
4q. Master class skills have cooldowns

[GM_Francis]

Hello @rivayir,

We will forward all your suggestions to the development team for them to review and see what changes can be done in the future. Thank you.

[lladocspark]

Good idea but … Vaivora…

[Hillgarm]

Adding more layers to the game is dangerous when the base framework isn’t resolved. This model of master class (and likely every other atempt) will be similar to the issue presented with Arts and Vaivora, which adds more power escalation and allows certain issues to be “fixed” through the new layers, making the base element incomplete for the sake of promoting a different layer element. It’s already bad to have scenarios like “X class isn’t bad, you just need to get Vaivora/Arts”, master classes can become just an additional step to it.

Remember, whenever you add a new layer of power to the game, the ceiling for stat check also rises and the game becomes less accessible for those that don’t engange/have access to that layer. In this particular case it won’t add a new barrier to players but rather multiply the value of the previous layers, which can result in less optimal options to be cut out completely.

@rivayir

Tree of Savior is very forgiving when it comes to selecting and changing your classes and builds, so in this instance your master circle choice should be final and you should not be able to change to make your choice have meaning. Many MMORPG Players also like this kind of thing and are turned off by a game being too forgiving with resets. It can even be done similarly to base class resets who are given out very rarely.

Players already swap out certain classes with balance updates just because they don’t perform well enough compared to other option, master class reset/swap has to be as accessible or else the playerbase will rage.

@rivayir

Even base classes should be included here for more build variety.

This brings up a second issue regarding the class system - if the META isn’t designed towards diversity, it will kill it instead. Players will always seek optimization for their game experience, there is no reason to seek anything else than raw damage (or healing) when that is the optimal way to handle 99% of the game. Master classes would be subject to that as well, likely ending up as one of the following scenarios.

A) MC base value is lower than class value. Players pick the best option available from their standard build.
B) MC value is too high than class value. Players will build around MC and have other class options to complement it. META will shift based on it.
+) MC allows certain unplayable classes to shine. Slightly increase on build diversity due MC value.

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The last problem with adding master classes is the production side. It doesn’t matter if they’re a mini class (three 5 point skill) or a full class, you still need to add a single new mini class for each class in game (even if only a handful of them will be played), with their new skills, animations and costumes, and also for every new class release. I believe there are other priorities for a while before we even think about master classes…

[Csiko]

@Hillgarm

Adding more layers to the game is dangerous when the base framework isn’t resolved. This model of master class (and likely every other atempt) will be similar to the issue presented with Arts and Vaivora, which adds more power escalation and allows certain issues to be “fixed” through the new layers, making the base element incomplete for the sake of promoting a different layer element. It’s already bad to have scenarios like “X class isn’t bad, you just need to get Vaivora/Arts”, master classes can become just an additional step to it.

This. Adding master classes before there is any semblance of balance will just be a disaster.

Also I don’t think people want more skills on their bars, hotkey space is so limiting as it is.

They need to completely remove Vaivoras from the game and incorporate what Vaivoras do in another way to base classes. They are, in essence, “master” classes in their own way. If you have your class’ vaivora, you will perform leaps and bounds above everyone else who does not have it… and if your class does not have a vaivora, it won’t perform well. There’s also the issue of trying to implement them as it is to weapon-agnostic classes, forcing a very specific class meta when the entire time, the game was built around customization and synergy and making a build better than the sum of its parts.

Tree has gotten so far away from that.