Tree of Savior Forum

Market restrictions - How should they change?

General Discussion
#14

Market restrictions should stay, but be lessened the longer one plays the game.
E.g. you start with one slot market space on the first week (change the waiting time from 1 week to 84 hours = half a week) and get 1 additional slot per every week you play until you have 3-5 free slots unlocked.

This would help fighting the intitial bot problems.

Another way to do this is by adding free market spaces via mainquest achievement: as bots usually do not do quests/can’t do them efficiently, it would be fine enough to give free slots via following the mainquest[i.e. clearing all mainquests along the way, not one specific, because that would be abuseable by botters] until like level 200 to unlock 2-4 additional market slots[e.g. every 50 levels of mainquest cleared = 1 additional free market slot]. This should also apply to Token users, making them have 5 extra slots from the start but having to work towards the other 4 slots.

Provided with Team Storage, people with Tokens can just have 3-4 characters and put items in Team Storage to achieve the 10+ market slots anyway, so more restrictions that way won’t really hurt the economy that badly and give more advantage to players who actively play their characters instead of having x bots on the same account for market flooding/farming/etc.

Doing the quests actually makes the players go for the lore and discover the world instead of just rushing through it&running instanced dungeons/Hunting Ground grinding to level up…

About the selling taxes: I believe the tax when putting something into the auction house should stay, and instead of taxing sellings, the initial listing tax should rise. That would enable enough silver sinking as most items are not sold during their listing time, while selling items would not result in additional loss due to taxes.
This can help regulating the market and fight inflation as higher prices would result in higher listing fees with no guarantee that anyone would buy the stuff listed[and also makes RMT more easily visible].

About Tokens on the market:

Tokens and premium items should be restricted from being buyable from the market for new players.

This is an easy way to RMT and allows botters to obtain Tokens with fresh accounts(i.e. one week old, level 40+) to negate the botting/RMT-restrictions.
Make the premium tab being unlocked after one to two months playing would ensure that players buy their first Token [maybe IMC can offer a one-time Token sale for 30-50% off for the first Token that is purchased via TP for an account; this may result in an increased number of Tokens sold] and don’t/can’t start RMTing/whaling right from the bat once the restriction on the market is over.

This is way more efficient than restricting everyone from using the market for a week and then opening the world of RMT because they have Tokens and TP as many as you want to see.

#15

I have to disagree.

99% of players quit in the first few hours of playing.

Making the game worse during the earliest and most important part of the game where you’re trying to get players hooked is counter intuitive.

Mechanics that make the game better but only if you put up with something everyone thinks shouldn’t exist are a horrendous way to go about getting new players to play and increasing the population.

It’s especially bad because players have read about criticisms for IMC before starting the game, then they get to the problem and they think “Oh. The criticisms were right”.

You can’t upset players before they’re hooked. They have no reason to put up with something they see as bad.

Make the premium tab being unlocked after one to two months playing would ensure that players buy their first Token [maybe IMC can offer a one-time Token sale for 30-50% off for the first Token that is purchased via TP for an account; this may result in an increased number of Tokens sold] and don’t/can’t start RMTing/whaling right from the bat once the restriction on the market is over.

I also disagree with this. It sounds like a great way to make f2p people not even bother trying the game because they know they won’t even be able to get a token until they’ve played TWO MONTHS. That’s even worse than the one week restriction.

We should not be encouraging IMC to add anything to the game that limits or hurts people that want to f2p. That’s just going to hurt retention even more. Encourage f2p players. Get them hooked. Eventually they will become paying players when they’ve played a long time and really love the game. Making it even harder to get long-time players is not a sensible approach. The concept relies on cashing in on players by practically forcing them to pay for their first token to even enjoy the game in the first 2 months. What’s going to go through a player’s mind when they see that? “Oh, they’re forcing players to buy a token in the first 2 months, well eff this company and their bad-practices, I’m going to play Overwatch instead.”

Can’t agree with creating that kind of thought in a player on their first visit to the market being a good thing. It’s not. And it’s the kind of thing people will talk about on discussion boards everywhere as a reason that nobody should bother playing the game.

An even easier way to put it is that players should not be expected to pay for features that they can’t even able to properly try first.

2 Likes
#16

Nothing else to say.

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1 Like
#17

Exactly this and it’s not a problem of f2p only.
I’ve read many ragequit or upset after they bought a token just to discover that it didn’t lift the level/first week restrictions.

That’s the worst welcome you can give into a game.

2 Likes
#18

10 market slots without a token, unlimited (or like 100) market slots with a token. I’m legitimately always at the market slot limit. Lots of items just don’t get sold on the market because people don’t want to waste their market slots.

Remove the “wait to retrieve your items/silver” for token users at least, ideally for everyone. It makes no sense that I have to stare at the retrieve tab for an extra 10 seconds every time I buy potions or something.

Restricting new accounts does not effect bots unless IMC is really on the ball with banning new bot accounts, which they clearly aren’t. Bots don’t care that they can’t trade in the first week, they just spend that entire first week farming silver. Hell we’ve all seen bots that are well over level 200 who have been farming for months. They also don’t care that they only have one market slot, since they usually aren’t going to be getting drops that are worth much in their low level farming, they mostly exist just to collect silver. That one slot is plenty for them to sell their occasional battle bracelet (and I’m still convinced bots are the primary source of battle bracelets). Therefore, I don’t believe there should be any unique restrictions placed on new accounts/characters.

2 Likes
#19

First step is for them to seriously actually do something about the problematic token system itself. That is something they control and can easily fix not the bot and RMT problem. Second after that decide if they are going to actually dedicate time and resources towards combating everything which they didn’t properly demonstrate at launch. Last would be another personal apology for the bogus system that has hindered everyone only making IMC more rich in the process after kicking founders to the curb.

All the farming, silver sinks, and everything they implemented is literally because they can’t or won’t to take the time of day in being proactive about these problems. The economy has been royally screwed since day one and thankfully most people did quit because that more than likely allowed problems to be more isolated with who has tons of items and silver to track down. Final step is once you fix the silly token system, put in a proper trade system, just make sure people who abused the last system for years don’t go and ruin your new market.

1 Like
#20

There goes the over-exaggeration again, all games have bot problems and it isn’t really solvable from day to night. You don’t need to put emphasis on something that’s out of hand.

You don’t just put 1000 people working to check bots 24/7.

Which problems? So easy to talk and don’t cite them, right? Where’s the constructive part of the post? Just blame and exaggerate as always?

Since day one? Mind saying why? Seems you’re into false claims again.

Like I said in a lot of threads, kToS silver issue on Roxona maps showed that they actually handled exploits that had really turned to be serious and silver was removed and players banned.

People who abused which system? The token system? How does one abuse the token system?

The trade system? How does one abuse the trade system that has more limitations than room to try to abuse?

There you go again on only blaming with false claims/exaggerations and don’t bring not even a single valid thing to put as example to what you’re talking about.

The game has issues, talk about them instead of talking about ones that doesn’t exists. This post have like, no value at all, aside from being a troll post that only points things that doesn’t exists or over-exaggerated ones.

#22

If IMC does intend to listen instead of forcing their super restrictive policies then let me share:

Yes that 1 week wait is too much. Granted the flow of leveling has been faster than what I experienced with the Beta, I’m kinda ok with it. It still sucks but it wasn’t that detrimental as the gears were fast paced due to the leveling at early stages. However if someone doesn’t have that same experience as I had, they would be really turned off by it. They basically paid for it but you’re not letting them use it. Then they start to feel ripped off.

Though honestly, most of the restrictions by IMC on other aspects kills the game. Not just the market. Shared storage for characters on the other hand kinda sucks. Even as a token user you only get 1 slot at the start. First unlock is 200k silver which was quite stupid IMO.

Another thing I’m honestly baffled at is Dungeon Limit. Sure it has extremely high exp compared to how it was back then but seeing the domino effect of no new players plus people not wanting to run low level dungeons just makes it even more of a wasteland as it is now.

Just now I experienced getting paired in a dungeon run with just two of us. My teammate just left me and I failed the run. For some reason the system doesn’t care if you fail it. You lost a run. So, tough luck.

I really hope IMC has learned from their mistakes and will try to find better ways to handle this game. Such a shame that this game fell flat on its face. They’re stuck on fixing issues that should have been easily ironed out from the start instead of making better content for the game.

#24

Because you can’t find anything they’ve done in over a year which has resulted in this thread not being made. That means you are just a complete blow hard that that talks out your rear end. You can find many threads complaining about all these problems and more at your local search function on the forums. There’s no need for me to hold your hand and do it for you to quote.

1 Like
#25

This thread was made for a real issue. Don’t bring false claim and exaggerations to a totally valid topic that addresses the real thing.

#26

Tell me how long have they had to solve this issue again?

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#27

Tell me how many games out there have bots and the game is still running for more than one year with bots still existing?

#28

Cool story that’s why Awooo just made a post about people quitting and going to play those other games why again?

1 Like
#29

A wild topic change appears! It is not effective.

#30

Honestly, 10-12 bucks a month for the token isn’t that bad. But what’s bad is that it feels like an extortion for free players. Not even being a token user feels beneficiary at all. It just feels like things that should have been there right from the start.

I’m gonna try and keep my head above the water because right now. The more I play the game, the more the restrictions become apparent.

I can kinda forgive the bugs but I don’t want to speak much about it since I haven’t been here for so long. Though notoriously, IMC was pretty terrible with addressing bugs during the Beta phase.

#31

Holy ■■■■ do you and @ophiuchu have to fight in every god damn thread? At this point can’t you both just spend all day PMing eachother?

5 Likes
#32

Have you ever heard of keep your friends close and enemies closer? If you would spend less time quoting me and tagging Staff like a little baby maybe you could have a valid discussion. You could also take the time to do exactly what I said and find this post

Then build off the impact of that change along with the cash shop recycling system and what they did about selling premium items on the market. Instead all you ever do is come into a topic attempting to defame me and quote up a wall talking about how other games have problems so it is alright for ToS to go years without fixes and I just exaggerate.

Instead you’re just a lazy troll that tries to get people in trouble. :+1:

1 Like
#33

I don’t honestly see what the problem here is.

Founders got exactly what they paid for. Any entitlement beyond what they paid for is just throwing a temper tantrum. What they bought was delivered.

I see this same mindset in RevO, which I was also a founder for and have stopped playing since coming back to tos. I got what I paid for, CBT access, unique premium cosmetics and early access. There wasn’t anything else advertised.

You’re acting like Founders deserve more than the product that they were sold. You bought early access and a few other things, you were given those things. You aren’t entitled to more than that.

Lunar isn’t wrong either. Bots exist in every game. It isn’t a problem that can be solved, only mitigated. This thread isn’t about solving the bot problem which none of us ever expect to be solved, it’s about making them use a different solution that hurts the game and playerbase less than the current solution. If Blizzard and Square can’t solve bots or RMT in pay to play titles, nobody can solve them.

What matters here is not the bots, but the restrictions that are worse than the bots.

We should all also bare in mind that new players can’t recognise bots anyway. It takes time/experience in the game before being able to spot them. Unless they’re one of those instantly recognisable bot trains. So, to be honest, bots existing do not affect the new player experience a huge amount. Except for the quests in Tenet Church of course, but there are people camping with pets there that are just as annoying right now too.

It’s almost like someone made a thread saying something that’s been said long before contradicting things they speak about the game getting better in other threads.

Please stop this. People can talk constructively about problems that need improvements while also talking about and praising the improvements that have occurred and are ongoing in other areas. Talking about something positive is not denial of negative things, and talking about negative things is not denial of positive. Stop acting like it is. And stop acting like saying anything positive or negative has to be like choosing which sports team to support.

Discussion was going very nicely until you entered it. Lunar does not disagree that market restrictions are an issue.

2 Likes
#34

Psst. People wanted a nice playable game without problems not items you perhaps maybe misunderstood or -ahem- are making an exaggeration. Why do you think Kim Hakkyu came out to make that statement because people were crying about items and not the tokens and restrictions?

Other games don’t matter because this is Tree of Savior which has a problem with the system they said was to fight bots and RMT with the restrictions and tokens. Them even mentioning that is actually the off topic part not even relevant to the discussion.

Of course they don’t they just love quoting me and tagging the staff. But it was me that caused all the problems and not them doing exactly that not even trying to have a discussion. Let’s just completely overlook that part of everything. Maybe if they get more /b/ackup you’ll be right.

If you wanted a discussion then here’s a protip:

Spend less time talking about me and the topic because that’s all you people do every time I post. It’s always got to be about me in a complete character assassination like I care to hear your opinion of me and that’s relevant to the topic. I don’t make posts to hear what you think about me or someone else get over it.

1 Like
#35

Psst. People wanted a nice playable game without problems not items you perhaps maybe misunderstood or -ahem- are making an exaggeration. Why do you think Kim Hakkyu came out to make that statement because people were crying about items and not the tokens and restrictions?

You’re implying that the game is unplayable. This is what winds people up and causes fights all over the forum everywhere you go, you make stupid statements that are ridiculous exaggerations.

Of course they don’t they just love quoting me and tagging the staff. But it was me that caused all the problems and not them doing exactly that not even trying to have a discussion. Let’s just completely overlook that part of everything. Maybe if they get more /b/ackup you’ll be right.

They responded to you pointing out that what you were saying wasn’t true, just like the above statement.

Every time it’s the same thing. Everywhere. You make a ridiculous exaggeration. Someone points out what a ridiculous exaggeration it is and how it doesn’t contribute to constructive discussion, which you then argue is whiteknighting and defending the game as if problems don’t exist. Which isn’t AT ALL what was said by the person criticising your ridiculous exaggerations.

I think you already know this though. I think you do it in every thread because you get kicks out of it.You enjoy winding people up and getting a reaction. And you know exactly what you’re doing.

What’s amusing is that you’re the one laying bait everywhere to get reactions, and then have the audacity to call other people the trolls, when you’re the one laying out the bait and instigating it everywhere.

Spend less time talking about me and the topic because that’s all you people do every time I post. It’s always got to be about me in a complete character assassination like I care to hear your opinion of me and that’s relevant to the topic. I don’t make posts to hear what you think about me or someone else get over it.

We don’t talk about you. We talk about the utter rubbish that you keep posting, trashing up every single thread with these arguments.

Newsflash - People that don’t care, don’t react or respond with statements like “I don’t care”. They don’t react, and they move on with their lives.

1 Like