Tree of Savior Forum

Low rank classes skills are obsolate

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#1

As I am bored of the bajilion threads about class x vs class y balance, I would like to focus more on something that should concern every class there is in game.

We know that the game will be aiming for even higher class ranks than 7. There is one gigantic problem in low ranks turning to useless in damage skills.
Personaly I think that every class you pick (no matter if on lvl 50 or 150), it should be usefull composition in your overall build no matter if its buff, debuff, CC or damage skills. Otherwise I dont see sense of even implementing the lower rank class in the game, waste of development time.

Where is the problem source? Mostly in the way IMC create skills, the numbers in the skills.

IMO IMC should totally resign from all +x values (for example 1200 attack value in damage skills).
All skills should be changed to x% damage value and number of hits. This way your damage skills will be always usefull, since x% damage will scale together with everything you got (gear and stats). Where flat +x values will fall off pretty quickly turning the skill to obsolete.

Some buffs fall off in the same way, giving +x stat. They should be also turned to some x% stat, even if it will be weaker on lower level, it will surely be noticable on higher.

This will also help in balancing the classes since having x% value only instead of x% +x value is simply reducing the amount of calculations required.

4 Likes
#2

If you read IMCs Q&A’s they designed the early ranks to become useless or low impact late game “to allow for mistakes at the beginning”

Not saying i agree with it but they intentionally made it this way.

1 Like
#3

Well, I think plenty times some skills get useless cuz u get them to make your life easyer early game. I’m 250 now n had realy tough time at the start, but all my skills still worth at all.
I’m full suport and there’s no buff that get weak for my team. About de flat damage, I guess it’s this way cuz plenty things in game affect skills more then one time, like Bless. Some people say it’s useless late game cuz of its flat bonus, that the truth is Bless ad TONS of dmg late game, cuz it procs with every new skill you get, so you can use all the stacks in 45 sec, as I already stated in other topics. If everything is scalable %, they would have to change how things work right now. Plenty of them.

#4

Those people are stupid if you auto attack for 1000 Blessing is still adding over 10% damage per hit.

I think the issue is not all low class skills fall off like IMC thought they would lol.

#5

Then what for developing them at all? Even rank 7 will be low/moderate when rank 10 hits the game. Its waste of time to do work when 70% of it will be used by the player for small amount of time.

Also the mistake part is flawed since you can make as much mistakes on rank 10 class as much as rank 1. Thats why we have reset skill potion to correct that, not lazly designed classes.

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#6

Im just repeating what they said. I never said it was well thought out lol.

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#7

Yes, sadly, they are (with some exceptions). The low rank skills should be about building a base for the high ranks, like Quick cast attribute and Kneeling shot. But if you look to the majority of those skills, they doesn’t even get closed to base building skills; most of them just have no scalings and a base damage that is so bad that is better Auto atk then waste SP on them.

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#8

Lol that’s a lazy excuse, from them I mean.

#9

I don´t understand why all of you want % based scaling for everything. If you do this the damage goes up exponentially and the balancing gets way more difficult.
Do you really want huge ass numbers like in Diablo 3? You can even hide the last digits to shorten the number - this is ridiculous. There are some skills that have to do +6000% damage and more to be balanced against other skill combos. Do you really want that?

I won´t say that the mechanics in ToS are flawless, there are many things that need fine tuning or even overhauls. But the system of scaling with mostly flat numbers + a few % based things has a lot of potential and is in fact very well thought out. They don´t use a scaling system that is completely different from similiar games for nothing.

#10

It doesnt go exponentially as much as you wrote.
D3 made big numbers without a reason (in terms of balance), they wanted people to feel powerfull thats all there is for their numbers. They could aswell divide every number there is in game by thousand and still would work the same.

#11

Yeah I already feel this way about Rangers skill being useless compare to Fletcher.

#12

huh i did not know that…

Looks like I might consider making a new character that has more utilities for early classes then later classes ill get the damage ones.

1 Like
#13

Yeah for now the best choice is to pick utility skills that will be always noticable in some way.
As a swordman I pick concetration since its 100+ damage per hit (on multihit skills it can add nice chunk of damage).
Pain barrier since its great buff, imo the best skill a swordman C1 have.

But all the damage skills fall off quickly if they dont do x% damage scaling. +200 or so attack on skill is nothing. Also you cant add big +x attack on low level skills since you will be to strong on low level content. The only way is to add x% scaling.

#14

I pretty much agree with this thread, I find it kind of contradictory for the game to advertise so much class diversity, only to have a lot of earlier classes become obsolete at endgame.

I think it would be interesting if earlier circles’ damage attributes (or maybe attirubtes in general) have a cap higher than Level 100 and higher circle ranks would have a lower cap, this could potentially balance out the damage at endgame.

5 Likes
#15

No one said that we should use crazy % numbers for skills.
For example Rank 1 C1 skills could be 100~150% attack damage, R1 could be 200~250%, C2 R2 could be 200~250%, up to Rank 7 with maybe 800% damage. That’s not a big difference, but big enough to make R1 C1 better than R1 C1 ( 800% vs 150%), but at least this way R1 C2 would be equally strong to R2 C1 and, since it’s all %-based, they’d retain the same amount of efficiency regardless how good your equipment or your levels are.

Right now if a R1 C1 skill deals 110 damage it will deal the same 110 damage even at level 600. That’s what makes them useless.
If instead they’d deal 110% attack damage they’d scale with the equipment and stats the player has, resulting these skills to be useful even at level 600 and making int and str much more useful, since they’d scale with skills %-values, rather than being flat additions to damage.

1 Like
#16

Actualy I think that higher ranks shouldnt actualy have so much higher damage diffrence to lower rank classes.

The damage should be based on the role of given class and each class should have role not just higher numbers than the previous one.

So if there is damage class on rank 3 then it should proximitly deal same damage as rank 6 in scalings.
The diffrence should be in cooldowns, utilities, way of dealing dmg (dps or burst), aoe of skills and so on. Then they can differ in damage done then since there might be hard to output damage skill with should reward more.

Giving more damage in such game only because something is higher rank is useless. x% scaling should make every job usefull just in different way.

2 Likes
#17

Skills already scale with your stats as well as with your equipment (attack power from the weapon + elemental dmg or even more stats from equipment)
You can easily archive a better class balancing with the current system.

#18

Funny how the result is that it is making people reroll and quit.

1 Like
#19

i hope the staffs will take this into consideration… It just seem like a bad design for lower rank classes to drop off late game. If that is the case, why don’t people just all roll classes that provide some sort of utility and reach end game then worry about the dps?

This is like game design at a fundamental level before actually launching to production. Not sure why they would have a flaw like this after launching the game live.

#20

Oh look, just another Swordsman C3 complaining…