uh… nope @_@ he got the dual wield because heathclif decides that kirito has the fast reaction on SAO- he work hard as a solo player =V
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he work hard as a solo player =V
aka no life mode grind fest 24/7
lol true story XD
but… he worked hard as a solo player. his hard work earned him the skill (he didnt use speed hacks clearly because u cant hack the nervgear while ur trap inside the game… duh… and basically they are trap inside the game, what els can u do there? just cry in the corner and die alone? or fight for survival like he did =_=") and still the beats the game at 75 floor dungeon @,…,@
It was explained in Mother Rosario arc that if Zekken was in SAO she would be the one with the Dual Blades ability as Kirito explained it himself.
Zekken and the rest of the Sleeping Knights were strong because they spent more time in the virtual world than any normal human far longer than SAO players. Since they literally no real life at all due to their diseases where the only way for their lives to be normal are the virtual worlds.
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true it was explained by kirito… but that time zekken and the sleeping knights were in another game… while kirito is stuck in SAO, crowning him the fast reation in the SAO world( bieng yuki as the best swordman in ALO), thus, earning him the dual wielding… but IF zekken were in SAO she will be entitled of that skill unfortunatly she wasnt(and yuki was 1-2 year advnace user of the nervgear before kirito even got the chance to use the nervgear… the doctors are already using medicuboid(?) was it? treating her illness)… poor yuki
RIP
u_u
getting out of topic here >_<"
nope were not getting side tract, Kirito has just explained that Yuuki will get the unique skill because she has more skill, experience, and time spent in the virtual world than Kirito.
hence no life 24/7 method
What you said is basically true. The hidden class is sure a great addition to the game if and only if the classes that are being promoted won’t eliminate the other classes in the game. I’m in no way against the hidden class system. But I am more concerned with the game in long term. The fact that the hidden class pertains to only several people, it can cause jealousy for players because they thought that everyone is given an equal chance to be able to grab what the game has to offer, but like I said, it’s not jealousy for me at least, I am concerned about other players out there and the longevity of the game itself. Good opinions by the way, it somehow opened my eyes a little about the hidden classes…
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hmm is that so? hmm oh well =V
kirito had no choice but to accept his fate bieng trap in the game ( for sure if ur trap in the game… most of the time… u are playing the game… which cant be avoided. u cant take a break from it physically, but u cant take a break inside the game virtually… and they must work hard to beat the game otherwise their real body will rot in bed and eventually die @_@")
yuki had no choice iether… cause she has an illness (AIDS in its final stage maybe). the scientist use their skill/experiment to prolong yuki’s life. she can only walk/play/talk at virtualy games so she didnt have of a choice living in real life… now does she have any option to live in real life? no… did she have a work to support her life? no… did she have an opportunity to expirince the outer world? yes (thanks to asuna… and partly kirito)…
well my point is… those two people havent got a choice to play regularly (due to the fact that both of them had issues) and live thier lives peacefuly…
now kirito has a life to live and using the amusphere (upgraded nervgear w/out the microwave functions @_@) as a communication tool and gaming gear as well…
the only reason why they are “no life 24/7” is because they are traped… that is all… i mean… i got a life to live… i need to have daily exercise… i need to go to school/work or do somthing productive for the day and can still play games… they didnt have that =V
Irregardless only those that have really spent alot of time inside a game will most likely find out what are the quest for the hidden classes.
Unless someone is really lucky to stumble upon it.
well its not that simple maybe… like they need this x item and that x quest to get another quest and hunt anther item for another quest flag. it is hidden. so players will have to dig deep in order to get or atleast trigger the quest flag… (infos from information brokers, quest items that are not that much of a rare materail but atually needed to acces certain part of the hidden quest, play time, knowledge on sercret hidden doors, puzzle pieces , etc. etc… this should the hardest part of the game if it realy gonna become only hundred players or only 1000 players will be granted (1 each hidden classes per account) and can be subjected to other limitaions)
or even if ur lucky enough to actualy get the quest… chances are, youll only hit a wall in the long run (probably not high enough level or wrong skill build for a certain hidden class)
why do they even want to stay 24/7 ingame just for the sake of a hidden class?(probably because of competitiveness from finishing/completing it) @_@ sheesh and even if spending too much time on it… it will not be that simple(depends on how IMCgames will make the quest)
they realy need to get a real life if they dedicate their lives for game =V
People keep talking about how top 100 or some form of count limitation is a good idea, mentioning SAO or LMS, but I strongly disagree. They are interesting in those universes because they are stories where this rule is used as device to make specific traits of the main character stand out, be cool, awesome, etc. And even if there was no limit, these are specifically not characters who would share information in guides. The world is heavily sculpted to fit their needs, the authors just make it seem like they discover all sorts of cool things (which is what they’re supposed to be doing, of course). Nearly everyone else in the story is dumbed down in terms of smarts, ability or time to make the character more interesting.
It doesn’t work that way in real life MMOs. Attempting to apply the same idea to an MMO where everyone is told to be a hero but doesn’t have the same opportunities to be what they want is only going to piss off a lot of the playerbase who can’t get the quest and make the 100 people who have the class extremely smug. You might say, yes, they deserved it, they put a lot of effort, they farmed the items and put in the time. But there are plenty of scenarios where this negatively affects the playerbase.
What if someone who hasn’t heard about the game, later hears about it from friends, plans to put in huge amounts of time but finds out that the hidden class he/ she is aiming for is unobtainable? Is that fair to late joining players who want to put in more time than everyone else, but can’t because of this silly count limit? What about people who have life circumstances pop up and legitimately need to stop playing, still intending on getting the class, but later can’t because all the slots are taken? What about the person who will get the class in order to purposely put out a guide on the net in order to ruin the experience for the entire playerbase for doing this quest (and you know these kinds of people exist!). It’s just all sorts of trouble. Some people don’t care, but a lot of people do when it comes to equality and will be thrashing IMCGames on this a lot, which sounds like a silly thing for them to deal with. The last thing they need is tons of negative steam reviews on something like this.
In my opinion, games don’t exist to limit options from people, they actually give everyone the ability to be things you can’t normally be in reality. Why impose a reality-like limit on such a thing? It’s fun to read in stories, but those are just that - they’re not about you, they about a particular person solving problems in a particular world. If the intent is for real players to feel special, there has to be an opportunity for everyone who can play the game at any time, just difficult to obtain. Some quick workarounds to this could be having the quest line change in parameters or directions every week, for example. Of course the quest parameters or materials should still be hard to fulfill, so you will still get a small amount of people who will be able to complete it, it’s just now as a percentage of the population, not a flat 100 or something like that. The sloppy way out could be 100 per month, or whatever particular number is better in comparison to population size. There are other ways you could do this and still make everyone happy.
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What if someone who hasn’t heard about the game, later hears about it from friends, plans to put in huge amounts of time but finds out that the hidden class he/ she is aiming for is unobtainable? Is that fair to late joining players who want to put in more time than everyone else, but can’t because of this silly count limit? What about people who have life circumstances pop up and legitimately need to stop playing, still intending on getting the class, but later can’t because all the slots are taken? What about the person who will get the class in order to purposely put out a guide on the net in order to ruin the experience for the entire playerbase for doing this quest (and you know these kinds of people exist!). It’s just all sorts of trouble. Some people don’t care, but a lot of people do when it comes to equality and will be thrashing IMCGames on this a lot, which sounds like a silly thing for them to deal with. The last thing they need is tons of negative steam reviews on something like this.
QFT. Just had to bold that because it’s so much true.
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I’m going to take out your main point and try to respond to that so its easier to read:
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If someone hasn’t heard of the game and then eventually get’s into it, and plans to invest a lot of time into a hidden class, then they should plan knowing that it is locked to a certain amount of players per server (and possibly for a certain amount of time as opposed to permanent). It just seems silly not to have figured that out and planned a long term investment into something, if your looking up hidden classes, thats the first thing you should find out.
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Is it fair to players that came in late? That depends, is the system 100 per server permanently, or can it be contested over time (weekly/etc), or is it reset over time? If its the later 2, then it’s perfectly fine.
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What about people with real life circumstances? Since we’re taking the rules out of the story/game world (SAO/etc), and applying real life rules/real MMO rules to it, then lifes not fair. This type of system isn’t designed to be achievable for everyone, and people need to understand that. That’s what makes it so rare and interesting and worthwhile. If life gets to you, that’s unfortunate, but there’s no reason that should have to stop everyone else. You can’t think up every reason to stop a system like this, that’s just absurd. Say you wanted to reach 150 this week, but life got to you and you had to stop. The game shouldn’t have to change how it works, to cater to you. That’s impossible to ask for.
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What if someone makes a guide? Someone will make a guide, just don’t read it if it ruins your experience. Either way, everyone will find out one way or the other.
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Negative steam reviews? Yes there will be negative steam reviews, but a lot of people like the system as well, and its one system out of the very many that ToS has, so I doubt it’d have a higher negative:positive review ratio.
That’s my thoughts, it really all depends on how it’s handled, but a limited hidden class system works, and it changes the value of the classes by so much, and makes them worthwhile and always interesting. It’s an achievement, that not everyone will always be able to get.
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If someone hasn’t heard of the game and then eventually get’s into it, and plans to invest a lot of time into a hidden class, then they should plan knowing that it is locked to a certain amount of players per server (and possibly for a certain amount of time as opposed to permanent). It just seems silly not to have figured that out and planned a long term investment into something, if your looking up hidden classes, thats the first thing you should find out.
You can join late, see that a class you like after looking at the list isn’t available to anyone, and become disappointed because you were planning on putting lots of time into this game. I want to put time into this game. I’d be pissed if something really cool down my jobline was just straight up permanently unavailable to me before I even started playing, and maybe I really wanted to get that class but only learned about it after it was all taken.
Is it fair to players that came in late? That depends, is the system 100 per server permanently, or can it be contested over time (weekly/etc), or is it reset over time? If its the later 2, then it’s perfectly fine.
I’m under the impression from the post CBT2 Q&A that it sounded like 100 per server permanently. I am hoping this is not the case. I would be ok with the latter 2 as well.
What about people with real life circumstances? Since we’re taking the rules out of the story/game world (SAO/etc), and applying real life rules/real MMO rules to it, then lifes not fair. This type of system isn’t designed to be achievable for everyone, and people need to understand that. That’s what makes it so rare and interesting and worthwhile. If life gets to you, that’s unfortunate, but there’s no reason that should have to stop everyone else. You can’t think up every reason to stop a system like this, that’s just absurd. Say you wanted to reach 150 this week, but life got to you and you had to stop. The game shouldn’t have to change how it works, to cater to you. That’s impossible to ask for.
You can always reach 150 another week, if you can still play the game later. That’s not analogous to being locked out permanently when you come back to try to get your hidden class. Of course, this all depends on the implementation of the limit (if it’s permanent or not). And of course the game shouldn’t have to cater to you, but that doesn’t mean players can’t give input on rules and systems that are divisive like this one, feedback is important after all. Saying that the game is not designed to be achievable for everyone is fine and all, there are games like that out there along with pay to win games, but I’m not in that particular group and wanted to provide my particular view of this issue. My suggestions also don’t make the game ‘stop’ other people for their own problems, it just changes the number of people who can get it to something more reasonable (percentage instead of flat).
What if someone makes a guide? Someone will make a guide, just don’t read it if it ruins your experience. Either way, everyone will find out one way or the other.
It just means the people who gather the materials and fulfill the requirements the fastest after seeing that a guide was released will get the class and lock everyone else out, which is a different playing field compared to everyone trying to discover the rules on their own. Those people not reading the guide might never get to unlocking it in time.
Negative steam reviews? Yes there will be negative steam reviews, but a lot of people like the system as well, and its one system out of the very many that ToS has, so I doubt it’d have a higher negative:positive review ratio.
Do a lot of people really like this system? I felt from this thread, reddit, other forums etc. that more people were in disapproval, and the people who liked it were in the minority (as I would expect from the hardcore crowd). But I could be mistaken.
A lot of my previous post banks on the limited count being a permanent thing per server, since there’s nothing to prove otherwise so far. I already mentioned some weekly or monthly limit being an alright solution. But there’s not enough information. I just wouldn’t want it to go down that path if possible.
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technically 100 players limitations for a class is a bad idea… but does IMC care about this? i dont know… they decide what happens to the game(cause they are the makers of ToS )… we’re just here to comment what we think is acceptable and what is not. there is no connection what-so-ever on SAO towards real MMO in our worlds… it just points out what “hard work” and “wasted life 24/7” really ment for just an example…
its dosnt work in real life MMOs? technically yes… but dude its just a game… anything can happen >_<"… generaly speaking we are not implying those heroic acts to ToS and basicaly bieng a lonesome hero in-real-life-MMO is nonsense which is why we made and example on SAO stories… not to actualy merge it with the ToS game… and yes, playerbase will be pissedoff because of how low the limit of actualy getting that certain class… but the devs design the game that way… its iether u play it or quit… just 2 simple decisions… and the game havent been internationaly tested, yet alone having 100 limitation to hidden class is proven (i havent read the source so i guess i might be wrong)… in any case… this is subjected to change if people realy wants a hidden class… rephrasing that, not-hidden class…
hmm well lets say he heard it from his friend… did he research it 1st? did he ask if theirs any catch on hidden class bieng “hidden”? why did he even put huge amount of time for it when he do alot of productive things in life, like improving his class build, refining weapons, and other stuffs? its flat out stupidity to start on somthing u dont even have information about… its like going to war withour ur guns and ammunition or taking test without studying (exept for stocked knowledge and constant study habits)… as i was saying in my later post… this is not intended for non-competitive players cause they are just gonna fail in the end. their always gonna be a better players out there that can beat them and there is always hate/envy/jealousy generated in this types of competitiveness…
dude a game without limitiation is a broken game… example: refining a weapon can go +999… now thats looks over powered isnt it? that will break ballance to the game… imposing limitations is whats keeps an MMO going, or atleast running (well their are things to consider though). like the hidden class limited only to 100 …is just an idea… and can be change anytime (depends on the devs though)…i understand also the everyone wants to get this achievemnts… do u undertand too the concept of competitiveness? life isnt fair… does that mean MMO should be fair too? well, yeah, of course it has to be fair other wise players will just go bye-bye… but what about those hardcore players with thier end game gears and their billions of ingame money… only took 1 player to get the same amounts in one day and still you still called fair? real life isnt fair dude… so does the world of MMOs… their always gonna be imbalances weather it is a fake world or real world… that limitation is just one example of it
A damage, crafting or upgrade limitation is applied on everyone. It’s not like one person can get a certain type of upgrade and no one else can. That’s the type of problem the limited class count is.
Yeah, real life isn’t fair. MMOs can be this way too. But as a company, you typically won’t make much money and survive if you only cater to the hardcore. You could if you do pay to win games. Does anyone like those? Just the people with money. Anyway, this isn’t a pay to win game (at least it doesn’t look like it so far), and it’s a crappy thing to think about, but they need to keep the game going after all. At least provide equal chances of opportunity but make it difficult, only for people with the most skill or time. You still get a small amount of people with hidden classes. It’s just not locked at some number IMCGames arbitrarily decided. And maybe a casual player decides he wants to be hardcore one day, and thus should be able to get his dream class. As for your example of 1 player making the same amounts of money or gear a hardcore player might have in one day, well then just make it harder for that to happen! That player can eventually reach it after spending a lot of time. Lets not take away the ability for him to get those at all.
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Lol this idea of limit hidden abilities/classes is the most absurd idea I’ve seen on this forum so far. That’s completely game breaking and destroys the integrity of the game. It’s just as bad as p2w, giving you extra skills to work with, and sold out so deal with it. I mean players who want to pvp and destroy other guilds would rightly defend this idea because it would make the server so one sided. It would also destroy the marketability of the game in the future because 100 players just beat the game. I mean even before what @Ivalix says about others not being able to work towards that goal, the people who do but don’t make it because of a job or real life situation are being punished for logging out which in itself is morally questionable.
The idea is suicide for fair pvp, this isn’t sword art online, we aren’t all Main characters and even then when you think about it, SAO had awful balancing. Kirito was just too badass, so no one noticed. Hidden classes are awesome, a limit is not at all. If you want a fair game, talk about something else.
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honestly i dont care for now about hidden classes @_@"
i still got other problems in hand (class build finalizations and stat distributions)
true, giving opportunities for players to aim for hidden classes and in the end will fail is realy disapointing …u_u… IMC realy needs to reconsider the limitations and make another way of limiting players to get hidden class like the sudjestion 100 players per month can eligibly apply for a hidden class… or X amount of players limit for each hidden class category ( are there 8 hidden classes? or only 4?) every month… and closes the quest line after the 1st week of the month >_<" IMC can just make a patch to reorganize the quest line for hidden classes… giving it a challege for players! also… limitation of 1 hidden class for 1 account ( itll be greedy if 1 player have all hidden chara in his/her barracks )
i just wish hidden class is just a little bit ahead to normal classes @_@
Gosh, you guys… seriously comparing an MMOs to real life. What give? And what’s with comparing a non-existent game to the one is being developed? I mean, even comparing it to an anime? SAO is a show, and in a show anything can happen. ToS is real, it’s a game and it is backed by a game company who made it and they need to be able to have a clear strategy to win every people who will play the game. Comparing the logic in real life and a game itself is already hard to comprehend with. This is basically talking about theology and science all over, but I ain’t gonna continue on that.
Now, onto this case. The hidden class is indeed a new feature that probably lot of people have been looking for several decades now because simply no other games have ever done this before. It may sound really great post-launch where everyone starts from 0. Real life, like everyone here has said before, is unjust and unfair. But that same logic CANNOT be applied in a virtual MMO. It’s a game. It’s a service that is made for all of us to enjoy. People chose to play games especially MMOs because they seek on a balanced game where everyone can enjoy up to the fullest without feeling cheated. Everyone starts equal from 0 and everyone got a chance to become good in the game he/she played. The fact that a certain class is limited to only 100 makes everyone things that certain 100 players beat the game, while in an MMO, it’s a permanent world, there’s no ends, just as @ZetaGhost has said.
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That’s only if that limited class is stronger. That, indeed, would be a mistake.
But as long as it is balanced, it will be just a different class.