You did a great analisys. The fact is:
Almost EVERY MMORPG is Pay to Play. Even games with low demand, low inovation scores like Tibia(2D), Realm of the Mad God (2D), Perfect World. All they has an incredible list of limitations to free players. This mean they do a DEMO to a free player. If the player can enjoy only with the DEMO, cool, if not, need pay to play the REAL game. In the end they are just enterprises, people, servers and tax to be paid.
Some games like WoW make it required since almost the beggining (past the oficial DEMO presentation [lv 1 to lv 20]). (I know, the level of difference between the support of WoW is incomparable, but the divulgation of P2P vs Hidden P2P is what Iâm looking here).
He (the Rabbit) want to implement some of the good points of socialism, that is suppress the acquisition of private property in order to give everybody the chance to buy it. Still on this analogy her concern is that the ones who can adquire this propertys, had obtained the resources dishonestly, making it unfair to all the society, while this help the profit of all with interest on this practice, including IMC and Players that do ReSelling. [edited]: Actually, for him the practice of ReSell tokens that is the cancer here, being it honestly or not.
Just as I did, you pointed how high valuable Tokens in game became a pain in the back to goldsellers that have trouble to compete.
So my question for you @ZeroFoxGiven is:
1- If the ones that are ReSelling Tokens are not goldsellers because of what we pointed, and they can just be buying Token to stock since they know in the future Tokens can be much more expensive due to the lack of players, do you think the limitation is correct?
2- Knowing that almost every MMORPG is a P2Play and in most part because they need that, and you still love the game, If you have the Silver and know that Tokens will be 5M about the next 3 months, but now they are just 2.5M (half of the price), and you dont want to be oblied to buy TP, you think the limitation is correct?
Iâm just curious.
Any one that wants to respond, I will be glad to read too.
First of, I would like to say thank you, for putting what I have been thinking of for a whole day now. (I am not good with words, when it comes to non-technology related things).
It is really a brilliant way to describe P2Play!
Here is what I think to your questions:
In my opinion, the limitation is unjust. I have lived in many countries in my short life, and it seems that those that have some form of free market, end up doing better.
â If we compare game economy to a real life there are way to many examples of when limitations to the market. Towards the end of Soviet Union we had those things called âCouponsâ when you could not even spend money without it (frankly I was little then) but I remember my parents tell me that, even though we had money to buy the toy I wanted, we could not, since it was scarce and you needed a Coupon to have a âprivilegeâ to buy that particular toy with your hard earned money.
â if we go more routes of limitations, i can see this happening here, you have money to buy something, but you can not, since someone might get offended that you bought too many of those.
might be a far stretched example, but I think you know where I am going with this.
If I had this information, I would buy tokens right now with all I got to profit from it later, or just to use myself.
Funny thing that is what I did towards the end of Founders time. Tokens were 350-500k, I bought about 20 of them or so. and even got some TP for them later when they dropped the price. â everyone had access to the information about the release date, and there was no way to buy TP at the time. If you put 2 and 2 together, everyone had the idea what was going to happen.
The fact that someone didnât is, in this case, their own fault.
Sorry, if I am speaking out of place on this and you really didnt want to hear from me.
Actually I play Tibia and thereâs no one buying all the Coins to hold them forcing the price to go up. Actually, itâs the opposite, there are so many Tibia Coins around that the market canât handle them and the price keeps going down more and more.
Almost all games I can think of have some special restrictions on Coins/Premium stuff. For example, on Tibia Coins there are some restrictions on your payment method that you may have Coins locked for 6 months (unable to trade).
My suggestion is just a half-baked solution that tries to solve the problem of a few group abusing and limiting the number of Tokens on market to force higher price/low offer when the demand is high to damage the game.
I think youâre misunderstanding me assuming the problem is only the natural reselling instead of the aggressive control on number of Tokens on market. Is this right? Or did you really understand what I posted?
I am also not saying it was obtained dishonestly, just when people come âyou should trade time effort for silver to buy Tokenâ but whenever you come with time/effort argument youâre asking to an AFK farming argument since it breaks the very suggestion of using time/effort to get the silver to buy Token.
Especially since the ones controlling the market ARE necromancers AFK farming. (FACT)
Do you think it is healthy to have AFK farmers to push on effort into other new players? Donât you think it pushes them even more into AFK farming to be able to buy their tokens? Wonât it just damage the game in the long run?
Again, youâre misunderstanding me again. I am not against reselling tokens. I am against a few players buying 100 Tokens and putting one or another on Market while there are only few/none on market, this effectively pushes price up and restricts how many Tokens lower level players can get. Especially since everyone will be buying the few ones which appear on low price (market camping), lower level players gets more affected.
I am not against it if this happens naturally, but donât you think it is a pretty bad thing if this is intentionally caused by a group?
Also, this assumes that everyone/most of player base are going to do RMT stuff. So I wonât even enter on this topic since it shouldnât exist in the first place.
But, sure, everyone who is rich can just buy Tokens fast at higher price, right?
But, can I ask you some things? Maybe we can come up together with something to solve the issue. Is it really ok to have a few players organizing something that mess up the game greatly for a lot of other players?
And when the Tokens run out because the small group buying 100+ Tokens to hold them?
Do you think it is a good thing? A bad thing?
Is there any other way to deal with it? Is it really healthy to keep it like this?
Does limiting the Tokens one can buy on Market really affects those already old players that much compared to how few players are affecting others by aggressively controlling the Token Market?
Also, this is a healthy thing, Iâm totally in favor of a few players buying Tokens here and there. Reselling, keeping.
But, now, do you think it is really healthy for some few players have more than 100 Tokens bought in a single week?
@Kostik I also agree with what youâre saying. The ONLY thing I think that should have these restrictions are the Tokens because of a small group abusing it when the player base is already small. Unfortunately we canât talk about generics when thereâs an specific case happening.
Itâs pretty much when your country faces problems like when thereâs no water for the current life style. You start trying to get ways to not make one greedy person use all water and leave others without, right? Unfortunately limiting how one may use the water can affect the life style of some people. But what is better in the end?
This situation reminds me of people flipping bonds on Runescape. Bonds are like tokens in TOS. You use a bond to get cash points or exchange for additional content in Runescape.
There are people who buy hundreds of bonds when they are cheap and sell them high when the demand is high. Its pretty bad for casual players but thats how f2p games or rather how all MMOs work. The rich get richer and the poor struggles to even enjoy the basic contents of the game. Still its a risk for people flipping tokens. No one knows if a few whales will go crazy and buy like 500 tokens and just sell it on market.
A player should buy as many tokens as he can buy TP.
He should buy as many tokens as he can spend silver.
Farm your silver, buy your token.
Report the bots, make post of those reports in the forum. Hunt down the bots.
What we need is more gm and gm-power in the game.
Let free the tree of savior players, tree of forums and tree of auction house.
Token is rising it price because:
1- there are less players buying tp, because there is less players playing.
2- Enchant scrools costs 200k silver, so itâs dumb to sell a 99tp item for less than 2kk silver.
Or just ban token by itself, every one should have perma token status.
Yes, it could prove beneficial for players, specifically those who are new to the game. No, itâll negatively affect IMCâs profits from selling TP (which in turn is used to buy tokens at first).
The problem isnât because the players are allowed to buy an unlimited number of tokens from the market but rather how they feel restricted without it that theyâre forced to hoard them. Law of supply and demand kicks in and things result into inflation.
Again, tokens come from TP. Iâm not sure if tokens purchased from market using silver can be resold (IIRC they become untradeable unless that was changed at some point). If youâre buying tokens using silver (through other players), youâre still indirectly helping pay for the game.
Whatâs really causing the inflation is the way the game allows players to âpassivelyâ earn ridiculous amounts of silver allowing them to have insane purchasing power, including the hoarding of tokens.
@LunarRabbitâs suggestion might be viable, but itâs not without its consequences for IMC as a business at the end of the day. I thought the token system needs to be reworked, but I am certain that to correct it would include correcting a lot of other aspects in the game.
Iâll tag the staff/GM here but I doubt getting a sensible reaction from them.
@ZeroFoxGiven Thanks for your response. I see your point. @Kostik Thank you too. (you writte very well).
Iâm getting off. It appear there will be always something âmisunderstandingâ so, I just wanted to see what you people tought about what I wrotte, but please, its better to ignore my comments and check @LunarRabbit comments. Thanks again. bye
Also, thanks for you comments. As for misunderstanding, there was some such as âActually, for him the practice of ReSell tokens that is the cancer hereâ which the problem is a few players limiting the market too much.
It is really complicated to discuss something when people answer you based on what you didnât say. I honestly donât know how to deal properly with it aside from trying to explain in details what I thought instead of âok, youâre rightâ when itâs not even my point. Maybe Iâm expressing bad what I thought? If thatâs the case, sorry.
Which I also agree, but thatâs assuming the current situation have no impacts on player base if it stays for more time.
But well, maybe Iâm not the person to discuss this, maybe it should have been simply posting the problem, asking people to discuss and never posting my opinion here since people seems to not understand or somehow it attracts trolls.
I will repeat what I said some posts above, if it wasnât for this idiotic restriction on non-token users of:
1 selling slot on Market.
24h waiting to retrieve the money.
Gear traded on 1:1 trade becoming untradable.
I doubt people would even bother if tokens where sold for 10mil, which in the case would end up hurting even more TP selling.
Or they could simple lower the token max value to 2 or 3 mil and things would be fine.
You want to sell well? Make the benefits of a token look good.
Applying heavy restrictions will scare new players even before they can try out a token.
Yesterday I linked a new player post here asking why he had to wait 14 or 16 days to be able to trade.
How many had that surprise so far I wonder, and they didnât even asked, probably googled it and found out that they entered in a hell hole of restrictions, consequently they probably though: âWhy the â â â â i have to waste my time on this crap if I can do what I want on other games and use the money for something of my interest?â.
Not even a freaking mail system it have, except from the one that the GMs send crap to you.
