Please feel free to tag our “generous” “hardworking” “considerate” devs. Thank you for delivering a really good update.
Although why is there a need to use “Charge Casting” for a skill that deals ticklish damage?
I’m not a genius so tell me?
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Try to equip a decent weapon and try it again?
But ya 600% feels lackluster…
But rush is like 4500% for the whole channel.
Earth wave is a mobbing tool, and a PvP tool but even still the damage is too low.
“Top Kek”? Hmm probably a troll post but I wanna say it anyway:
Oh no! The skill with +8 AOE Attack ratio, 12 second CD and a knockdown effect doesn’t deal a ton of damage…
Ok to be fair I’m not saying that Cataphract is in a good place dps wi- Wait… You’re using a cripple… at level 330… with a full dex build? You got dragoon’s + damage to bosses attribute again right?
Anyway, the problem I see with Cata is that all of its damage skills have some CC effect. When we think of damage skills at low levels say, skyliner, double slash, butterfly, Stabbing, Pierce, Seism, Targe Smash few of them have any CC effect, most also have some condition that can be met to further increase the damage.
The closest thing Cataphract has to that is steed charge auto critting slowed targets and rush only having a chance to CC…
IMO they’ll probably add an attribute akin to wild, where attacks made while moving do more damage. Or increase the damage the skills do while having the no knockdown attribute.
Hang in there @mugiwara_kaizoku, you’ll earth wave that boss down eventually! (Or use more suitable skills to fighting bosses)
When you compare it to EVERY R6 offensive classes even the defensive and weak paladin, Cataphract is extremly ridiculous even with the amazing trot :
- relatively important cooldowns
- not any overheat
- very high SP cost
- charge skills
Even with x2 multiplier, Earth Wave will be pretty inferior than most R6 maxed skill from other offensive classes. Doomspike damage are medium and even Rush damage are too low as Cataphract “ultimate / signature” skill (same for monks Kamehameha)
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and also mention the fake multihit skills
Having no overheat on it’s skills was probably thematic, the more overheat you have, the more you’re probably standing still not utilising Cataphract’s high mobility the same can probably be said for the charge skills and the CDs. Their SP cost is no higher than any other base rank 4 class, apart from maybe rush. [quote=“Ashurah, post:5, topic:362169”]
When you compare it to EVERY R6 offensive classes even the defensive and weak paladin
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Paladin isn’t that weak, I beat a SR and a monk on boss dmg in one of dungeon runs for 170.
But most other rank 6 skills don’t have +8 AOE and/or a knockdown, except Doom Spike but that has a longer CD.
Cataphract is kind of an anomaly, in that while it is an offensive class and definitely not support or defensive, but it’s not (currently) a dps class.
It has the awesome utility of trot, 3 knock downs, impaler, and rush let’s them damage many targets, potentially stun them all with restrain while dealing better damage than pouncing but not as much as cyclone to a single target. Basically all of it’s skills have some sort of offensive utility, that’s not something many classes can boast, so having that kind of utility and damage is a little bit much.
At least that’s probably what the devs think anyway.
Meaning even moreso that that video which uses full dex + concentrate wouldn’t be anywhere near optimum damage since it wasn’t even a crit.[quote=“pollitochikn, post:8, topic:362169, full:true”]
ib4 all the tree of forum players come here to say that cata its actually OP and we are all crazy.
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Just gonna say, I’m not saying that Cata is OP, just that OP’s example of cata’s damage is daft at best.
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ib4 all the tree of forum players come here to say that cata its actually OP and we are all crazy.
If those knockdown effects actually helped me more than they do not, I would not be even mad. If those sp costs are huge because of the knockdowns, then I totally wish they would cause less if I have the turn off attribute.
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spending into STR will not magically make EW good damage dealer. Since it was you who was claiming it would be good in STR, how about site your sources here and see if what you said is true.
Paladin isn’t that weak, I beat a SR and a monk on boss dmg in one of dungeon runs for 170.
So, 496% x2, is better than almost the same damage without cooldown ? Conviction deal also less damage than 2 of the Monk skill + Monk has 2 DoTs and also 3 different damage multipliers. With the same stuff, that’s absolutly impossible that Paladin reach superior damage as Monk. Even versus demons where Smite deal x3 damage, it looks complicated.
But most other rank 6 skills don’t have +8 AOE and/or a knockdown, except Doom Spike but that has a longer CD.
Swordsman rank 1, 3 knockback without charging time, less cost, less cooldown, faster execution. Any Cataphract will have Bash 3, so, you really think that they want more AoE damageless when they take 3 rank of Cata ? Or you think that’s legit to take a class just for a single spell lol.
“Better damage than Pouncing” … Yeah,you compare Rush, to another very, VERY bad skill.
I have a Lancer, with C3, i just use trot and impaler, sometimes rush with restrain 1vs1. But doomspike and Earthwave ? no no, bash better, that’s all (fun to mention that a R1 skill level 3 has better DPS than a R4 skill level 15, but yeah, that AoE ratio justificate everything xD).
Cataphract is intended to be a bursty mobile melee class, not a clown.
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What?
If you’re trying to deal max dps you’re going to use them one after another right? E.g. Cleave->Crosscut-> Skyliner x5. That was my thinking behind it anyway.
And having a wizard use lethargy, a thaumaturge use buffs ect. boost damage which would help with Cata’s low damage problems would it not? Or have circles which are good as single target dps?
DPS is a form of offence but it doesn’t encompass offense (It’s the best form in PVE game, but it’s not the only form). If Sw3Cata3 isn’t really cutting it for PVE DPS then surely that would mean it has not been built correctly for PVE DPS by your logic.
x 1.33 is not exponential and even with max guardian are you reliably taking only 1 damage anymore? No? I also didn’t know we were gonna bring unbalanced PVP into the conversation, regarding a PVE clip that’s supposed to show how bad a skill is at bursting down a boss when it’s kind of obvious that the skill’s main purpose isn’t bursting down a boss…
No but it will make it better than that 2 second video.
Never said that.[quote=", post:11, topic:362169"]
Swordsman rank 1, 3 knockback without charging time, less cost, less cooldown, faster execution. Any Cataphract will have Bash 3, so, you really think that they want more AoE damageless when they take 3 rank of Cata ? Or you think that’s legit to take a class just for a single spell lol.
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That sounds more like a class path problem than a problem with Cata. And that basically sounds like the reason people took Doppel for DOV + Cyclone a while back.
All I did was compare 2 (/3) very similar skills in how they worked…
EarthWave 15 is at least 3 times stronger than a single bash and will hit more targets than a single bash so it’s more situational than bash. Do you A. Charge up Earth Wave/Doom Spike when you know there are a group of mobs ahead or B. Know that there’s a group of mobs ahead but decide that you’re gonna go up to them and go through bash’s animation a few times?
quote=", post:11, topic:362169"]
Cataphract is intended to be a bursty mobile melee class, not a clown.
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Really? I thought it’s role was: “Cataphracts use two-handed spears. They act as cavalry who break through and scatter enemy formations.” or at least that’s what the class description; on this website; says it is.
Guys, I know I cut myself off here:[quote=“valkren9, post:4, topic:362169”]
Ok to be fair I’m not saying that Cataphract is in a good place dps wi- Wait… You’re using a cripple… at level 330… with a full dex build? You got dragoon’s + damage to bosses attribute again right?
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So I will try saying it again:
Ok to be fair I’m not saying that Cataphract is in a good place dps wise. But with the added abilities, the skills have with the new formula for Skill% that they derived here, Cataphract doesn’t really fit very well with the current model.
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Dafuq? My main is Pala3 Inqui, and I do more damages compared to a MetaMonk3 Inqui. :3
[quote]
If you’re trying to deal max dps you’re going to use them one after another right? E.g. Cleave->Crosscut-> Skyliner x5. That was my thinking behind it anyway.[/quote]
Lancer do that with crush and quintain combo and Lancer is the natural advancement of Cataphract meaning whatever Lancer could do with its skills it would synergies well with Cataphract. Do Lancer have charge up skills? Lancer doesnt have overheat? All those people who main Lancer knows how well it synergies with Cataphract and that Overheat is already happening with our natural advancement. Youre the only one who think this overheat pause or stand still would get in a way with cata.
No, it would boost more on Dopple than a cataphract would do with thauma buffs. Example on a party with thauma + Falconer, dopple and cata. A dopple having those buffs will boost his damage more than a cataphract would do and in a race with DPS a cataphract will fall behind by huge margin.
I lol so hard at this. Read again what you wrote youll find it funny too. Anyway, how does that in any way related of Cryo being defensive and yet could sport huge DPS margin than a cataphract could do on our current state? If a cryo could be offensive and defensive why a cataphract cant do that too?
Thats why we are telling you that a cataphract could be decent DPS before the update. Right now it is not like that anymore.
So where do cataphract shine then? Mobing? If you admit that Cataphract is not meant for bossing where do it shine then? Killing power of EW, DP or rush on mobs is below average compare to other classes.
The point is that it would still suck. Why would it still suck even though you recommended to build high STR?
to
huh? Lose one point onto another which invalidates the previous? Ok. Cataphract =/= Lancer they do their own things. Cataphract “break through and scatter enemy formations”, Lancer “uses strong anti-personnel skills”. Here’s the build you recommended for PVE Lancer right? Lancer may be a progression point for Cataphract but the same could be said for the other way around. We don’t know what skills lancer will get in future circles.
Isn’t that an argument for Doppel + Non-Doppel? And not just Cataphract? Or better yet which does more damage: Full support Thauma + Falcon + Doppel + Other DPS or Falcon + Doppel + 2 x Other DPS?[quote=", post:14, topic:362169"]
Read again what you wrote youll find it funny too. Anyway, how does that in any way related of Cryo being defensive and yet could sport huge DPS margin than a cataphract could do on our current state? If a cryo could be offensive and defensive why a cataphract cant do that too?
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Nope. Can’t see it, must not be that funny. An attack to hinder an enemy is still offensive, but in terms of gameplay DPS is faster hence the name. Cryo offense is based on a skill with CD over a minute and requires the combo of 2/3 different classes, that is burst damage, which for some reason we are comparing to just cataphract…that I find funny. Cataphract doesn’t have any cool combo like that, maybe Lancer C2 / 3 will have some e.g. a skill that does more damage on knocked down enemies.[quote=", post:14, topic:362169"]
The point is that it would still suck. Why would it still suck even though you recommended to build high STR?
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I meant it wouldn’t be an uber boss slaying skill with investment into STR.
…
Getting from point A to B with a swordsman and being decent at mobbing if I must sum the class and not the entirety of the build. Which for some reason we seem insistent on doing.
Nothing that has been said up till now was about before patch, just that the class isn’t doing much in comparison to other classes, while shade’s being thrown my way, insinuating that I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. The closest that has gotten to comparing now to the previous combat system is using Earth Wave 15 which used to be great but is now outshone by other skills.
Cata and Dragoon need serious rework for sure, no matter how you try to defend it, truth expose itself. You know that spears on the market doesn’t sell even put it on half of the price as before right?
I’ve tried many builds through the reset event, Cata is trash compare to Highlander and Barber, and Dragoon is trash compare to Corsair and Fencer. I’ve never loved spear jobs but I have to say “buff them” so no one else can whine about nerfing other classes.
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catacombs pike for 500k lmfao
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cata pike was always a hyped up trash imo…even before this rebalance…
but even 500k may be overpriced right now, considering I got a 315 2h HG spear for 700k a couple of days ago.
You missing the point sir, but keep trying to sound cool, you going into the right direction haha
sorry got carried away. yea 2h spears dirt cheap now cuz the class sucks.