Tree of Savior Forum

Ktos player worries about appraiser nerf

Musket main so I’ll just go back to hunter if it’s “too nerfed.” For mergens I think you have even more options. I don’t think they can “overnerf” appraiser, but perhaps just adjust some of the synergy with a few other classes commonly being brought.

Here’s the thing: If every group starts requiring a specific class for content that everyone needs to do, or you feel like you need this class to do very hard solo content, then it probably does need an adjustment. At the very least, other classes should be brought up to that level. In the case of appraiser, there really just probably needs to be a better way to obtain a blindside-adjacent debuff in the archer tree… or the investment should be way higher. Appraiser is kind of like piper in that it requires very little to be effective, can be slapped in any build, and enables an entire party to be over the top (piper for PVP, appraiser for both tbh).

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When Blossom Blader was a must have in every single party it was okay, but other classes are not ok. Sorcerer dealing 14b to weekly boss in KR was too much (and got nerfed), but BB dealing 17.1b to this week’s weekly boss in KR is okay (not nerfed)… this is sad btw

Well, I don’t think appraiser is in this ‘every group requires him’ state, but I do agree it is very strong for party. IMC said they are going to nerf devaluate, minimum critical rate and final critical damage. Since they plan to nerf so many different things at the same time, if the nerf is too high the class becomes obsolete.

I hope devaluate nerf is very little, or none at all, or at least they increase the duration according to the value reduction, so the nerf should have nearly no effect when soloing. Remember that currently duration is 30s and cd is 30s, but duration becomes 15s vs bosses, so if they decrease the effect to 2/3 but increase duration to 3/2 it is going to be about the same when soloing but weaker for party.

Minimum critical rate should be reduced a little bit only, since Appraiser has the ‘minimum critical rate for party class’ as a great core identity; IMO they should simply nerf by -5% at all levels (-8% with max enhance), from [5 + skill lv]% to [skill lv]%. The biggest problem of appraiser (and zealot, as they plan to nerf zealot too) IMO is the BIG synergy final damage multipliers have. When you take final critical damage from appraiser and, on top of that, add zealot’s final critical damage, it becomes a huge boost to the entire party, as they stack multiplicatively (and appraiser also improves the chance of the critical strikes occurring). I do not think those effects should be nerfed when soloing, but their final damage bonuses (from both appraiser’s art and zealot’s attribute) should be halved to party members other than yourself.

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in many opportunities they could choose this option but they preferred the lazy way by nerf

Theres really no way to bring up all of the alternative options up to the level of Appraisers support ability, unless you revamp other classes skills completely, appraisers debuffs were extremely strong both in parties that struggled to crit, and parties that had capped crit. Appraiser simply brought too much support value to a character which still had 2 slots remaining to pick a strong DPS base.
Appraiser was extremely strong and understandably nerfed. Whenever they over-nerf it remains to be seen.


It is for the current hardest content in the game, and you also explained why yourself:

Well this would be the way you fix it: Adjust the crit formula altogether. That doesn’t make nerfing appraiser a lazy fix, I think adjusting crit for everyone has way too many implications.

first it doesnt have to be “all”, then secondly theres no such thing as “all” cause theres really not much option with same effect of debuffing/buffing which are appraiser vs piper in archer, third it doesn`t have to be same effect but it can be buff/debuff/skill/mechanic that in result will make options available become competitive in either pvp/pve cause rn appraiser won by too much especially with addition of life insurance art

an example how imo they actually doin half good is by adding revive effect to r7x as an arts so we can actually skip priest opt for revive.its half good because it has short duration and longer cd compare to revive or even life insurance art. meanwhile they couldve make both revive/r7x/life insurance to have shared debuff like time travel sickness and make the cd/duration of r7x arts to be a bit more reliable.

Critting is simply too valuable, and min crit completely circumvents the nerfs to crit resistance shred which made hunter a viable option for parties that struggled to crit in the first place.
And then they add the crit damage on top which is a final damage modifier, which are extremely valuable in this game. Blindside alone provides more than many other support classes can, and you can still share karalienes, enhance weapons and shred armor and provide a revive utility buff.
Adding alternative supports that are just as strong or brings alternatives sounds good, but they can just be stacked on top of appraiser and lock down the archers build freedom even more, so the easy thing is to just nerf the powerhouse instead of making archer into a support tree.

You keep putting BB on your posts, but completely disregards the fact that Archers got 23B this week in kTOS.

I personally don’t have anything against Summoners but its crystal clear something is wrong when 1 person gets 13B and the rest of the Wizards and other rankings barely scratch 6-7B. (Which is the case of NA)
Can’t really tell if it’s summoner build itself or the final damage modifiers or Karaliene Isgarinti that’s breaking the balance, but it should never happen, ever. There’s no point competing when 1 person literally owns every WBR boss with 1 single build.

I’m totally okay with nerfing Final Damage modifiers and putting them all in the additive modifier basket, but it will also require some heavy balance on classes that their main damage comes from Final damage modifiers.

Edit: I’ve always been Doppel, and even when WBR came out, Fencers were still owning WBR bosses like Plants, Mutants and Neutral/Beasts due to Crits and Ataka.

or maybe they just need to delete all the green classes in archer.thats questions why they have to exist. :distinguished:

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we need a copy of crevox in term of gears,set,etc and let him do wbr to see how well he hit
though unfortunately i cant find any other summoner in klaip with karaliene isgarinti set, maybe its just me who lazy peeking summoners players gear
though i can find a summoner who have +21 glacia weapon but its just about time till crevox has his own way havin +35++ weapon like those ktos players have and deal damage like above
but certainly wiz set is so op
even among glacia weapon ill say glacia 2h staff is the most op in term of effect and usage

purple is always been special for imc, they always have special treat
their updates always like solve their problem like how karaliene isgarinti help those summons hit more mobs
what makes me mad the most is they trying to attempt making statue/installation build to be reliable by simply adding goddess set meanwhile carve owl, or even carnivory if they ever count it as installation in which it should have) are still sh*tty with their low hp,slow hit and low sfr. even the combination of builds with installations are still lacking synergies. plus the buff isnt that amazing either

thats why they previously add limit to exist for reason.

smh.from 15 class of archers theres only 4 green and even from that 4 theres, only 3 greens who solely act as support cause wugushi isnt that much support, but then falconer which is red oddly highly reliable for support thx to one and only skill effect aiming. and yet you speak like buffing these another greenies that currently not that competitive compare to appraiser gonna make archer into support? thats exaggerating.
every tree having their own supporting roles, scouts and cleric greens which obvious, swordie who can tank, wiz who can cc a lot, and including archers.
the only absurd thing happen to archer is actually by adding revive-skill alike life insurance to archer circle which oddly better than r7x arts. havent they forgot how odd it was a highlander having revive skill alike and finally they turn it into somethin else? jeez

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Not the case on KR though, shadow casters and ele casters with the channel set on KR are damn close to that number. Of course depends on the boss properties on a given week, but that’s also why you see really big numbers from certain types of swordies on any given week. Swordsmen are also up to like 18b. And the archer numbers are impressive and pretty much exactly why appraiser needs the adjustment. It’s too big of a damage steroid on a “free” class for an entire base class tree.

edit: And they already realized that isagrinti was an oops and nerfed it

The only really “green” trees in archer at this point are piper and appraiser. I’d argue ranger belongs there too.

Anyway, it does expose problems with the way IMC is trying to balance incoming/outgoing damage and mitigation, and how they want their content to be “hard.” It’s something they need to improve on. A monster should never just be a sponge for damage to be considered difficult, there are so many creative ways they could make fights last longer than a few seconds and have an interesting difficulty curve. It can’t be fixed until IMC stops doing balance changes in a vacuum. Whoops, made final damage modifiers way too strong, let’s not fix damage/crit or even the concept of “final damage” and rather just nerf blindside and blind faith.

nani… what did i say?


who said ranger is green? i thought its red. is it you or me who color blind ?:sunglasses:
also i was just kidding cause i think that guy i replied was exaggerating

oh no, I’m saying ranger probably should be green. It’s red now :stuck_out_tongue:

Literally my first comment about BB, I just have 2 comments in this account in this forum and only this one is about BB, “you keep putting BB on your posts” sounds strange

Appraiser should be nerfed. Period. I am just afraid of IMC nerfing too many things at the same time, and if they nerf all those things too much they might end up f*cking the class entirely up to the point no one will ever pick it. My comment about blossom is that it was by far the strongest class in the entire game for alot of months in a row, and it never got nerfed (instead, other classes got boosted up to now where some classes can outdmg BB, but the fact is that it was never nerfed). Summoner was nerfed, and I agreed with the nerf, it was just an example. They could have boosted the other classes to the same level as summoner (just like they did when BB was strong), but then choose the ‘nerf path’ (which is the correct way to do, but they didn’t do it with BB in the past, that is my point)

I do agree with it alot, but that gap might be result of different investment, not only the class (crevox’s setup is just too expensive, I doubt any of those wizards to have similar setup, but I don’t know them btw so I might be saying stupid things now). KR’s sorcerer hit 14b while other wizard builds hit ~10b the same week IIRC (that was the patch prior to sorcerer’s nerf). This 14b sorcerer has 3 +21 weapons, lv10 legend card, lv5 seal and +16/+17 accs (acc in KR grants patk/matk now), but the other wizards there also had a huge investment (probably not lv10 card nor lv5 seal, but very close to him), so I think (again, pure opinion, I don’t know other wizards from NA) this gap explains more about the power difference of the classes than NA server (which might have bigger setup gaps as the damage difference is much bigger).