Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v5.0

True, they say they want to rework things, but do the opposite of everything they said (laughs in Sadhu) and can even forget they wanted to rework classes (laughs in Chaplain and Alchemist).

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The frustrating thing is that Out-of-Body as a stand that walks with you is already possible for a long time, but as an unreliable bug that can’t really be used in normal content. There are many ways IMC could’ve taken for Sadhu for the better, but somehow they always take the worst ones like they’re doing it on purpose. The concept of Sadhu is such a cool idea I assume players may be excited about trying, but the execution is just piss poor.

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I don’t see why not? xD

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Reminder that 2h weapons having slightly less stats form ichoring/a single socket than 1h + offhand, while having superior raw attack is an issue that needed to be fixed, but 1h weapons being completely useless to the point that Sorcerers are swapping to the Rod only for Evocation and then swapping back to their Staves and Cryo rod almost being useless despite having a potentially very powerful effect simply because its a Rod is totally fine.
Literally nobody that has the option not to are using 1h weapons for any reason, because they are trash.

Also, shield swordie is literally getting +400% damage from vakarine set and +200% damage from provoke and its still not the most broken class in the game? Says a lot about the classes powerlevel.

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The problem is that not only 2h weapons had better raw attack, but the classes using them also had their SFR inflated beforehand during the years. Having higher stats was the only advantage 1h+offhand/1h+shield users had, basically.
Then weapon accessories came and 2h classes ended up with same stats, but far higher attack and the higher SFRs that they had beforehand and that were never rebalanced in accord to the new, higher attack. Add to that a series of inane bonuses and well, here we are.
Sure, subweapon masteries - where applicable - do bridge the gap between raw attack stats. But the other advantages are still there.

Let me add that the attack bonus from provoke is plain idiocy. It’s like the matador one, and it didn’t work there as well.
Firstly, because only one people can ever have aggro. So everybody else from those shield classes would still be penalized (same issue matadors have right now, but worse).
Secondly…how are you getting that aggro to begin with if you lack the damage to keep enemies aggroed? You need the bonus damage to keep the enemies aggroed, but you need the aggro to get the bonus damage. It’s a plain issue of circularity. I can see that with my fencer/matador as well - i happen to lose aggro at the white witch to some hoplite/dragoon/lancer friend (with their provoke attribute disabled) and i can never get it back since, by then, i do even less damage. And that has to do with the last issue…
That is, those bonuses and related classes are balanced over the best case. That is, you do the damage you’re supposed to do when you’ve got all those bonuses.
It’s fine when you get those bonuses from skills that Just Work - you activate your buff and that’s it. When they’re conditional…not so much. Even less when they’re conditional on something that depends on those same bonuses they provide - like getting and keeping aggro.
And as said above, only one can have aggro. Even if all of this worked perfectly…shield classes other than the one tanking would still be significantly worse off. So why should one bother doing one and gear it if he still risks to be useless just due to someone else using the same archetype as well? They can just do some two-handed class that has nothing like those conditional buffs and that Just Works.

To put it shortly…these kinds of patch-up won’t provide actual solutions. In the best case, we’ll go from shield classes being useless to one shield class among all the players in a fight being useful. That’s hardly an improvement.

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does anyone felt deja vu about this 2h topic :thinking:

im still gonna put up the fact that the root problem is the Defense Formula we had in the game and is giving soooo much more problem to everything and imc always used whack-y solutions for them.

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As far as provoke is concerned, i think they’re trying to empower shield swordie as a tank role in raids, where you can easily grab aggro by the massive bonus to aggro generation from the Provoke attribute, even if you would otherwise deal subpar damage.

Yeah
The original problem was that shield + 1hand was basically just as strong as 2hand therefore making no sense to use 2hand
now its the other way around

I think shield users are too entitled to want more offense though
If you want more damage you should play 2hand
simple as

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Yeah, but that provoke attribute is kinda iffy. As i said, i had people stealing aggro from me while they had the attribute off. And that was while i was using fencer/matador, that while not being certainly at the top right now, it still isn’t as bad as shield classes damage-wise.

That said, it would still be a single shield/swordie tank per enemy and used only for raids. Why should anybody care doing one and properly gearing it up if it’s bad anywhere else?
Those characters are useless with moringponia/skiaclipse since only one can have the aggro, anyway (and you aren’t getting it if some other people purposefully keeps their provoke attribute up).

I agree, but one handed/non shield classes should still be on par with 2-handed classes, since they aren’t using shields either.
Also, if classes are already supposed to be focused on dps, their other capabilities should be limited. Instead we have high physical dps classes that are mobile, that have various utilities, that may have defensive and offensive debuffs, that have good AoE attacks, or even most of the above together. Having a normal defense is no tradeoff if you do everything else better (and in case of mounted classes, they get bonus stats from pet to make up for it anyway…).

I remember they added that nice attribute of offhand providing attack to mainhand similar to how scouts works
I dont know why it was removed so stupid and lead to this

Imo it should be like this:
2 hand = raw power
offensive 1hand + dagger = utility/speed but still strong enough to not feel worthless
defensive 1 hand + shield = tankiness with noticeably less power

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The offhand attribute is there for one handed spears, there is a sort-of buff for hackapells, and rapier classes will get it as an art (along with a significant nerf on epee garde but with the removal of limitations on pierce damage…math-wise it doesn’t seem to help much even with +16 t10 new weapons, but we’ll see, especially since they’re already planning further rebalances on rapier classes).

Imho, one of the issues is that they kept adding things without properly rebalancing the two-handed classes when they did so. Inflated SFRs were kept inflated, previous functionalities were kept there, but the raw attack was drastically increased. One handed classes may have got the raw attack increase from the attribute, but their SFRs weren’t up to par either way.
Regarding the role that one and two handed users should have, i think it would be limiting to make it depend just on the weapon used. As long as the benefits and disadvantages end up well balanced, that’s fine. We may have two handed classes with high utility and lower attack - just balance the SFR over that - as well as one handed classes with high damage and low utility. It’s a game after all.

The two real villains in the 2hx1h+Off discussion are weapons (both as equipment and skill limiters) and the state of combat.
1 - Until they make weapon acquisition easier or less demanding on enhancements, players won’t have much of a choice when deciding what to use, since classes will push you towards a specific type (exception in Wizard and Cleric). This means either the requirements for skill activation have to be more flexible or the equipment system has to.
2 - Since the combat is too quick and has no tension, it is pointless to try make the decision aside the damage aspect, after all you don’t need to worry about taking less damage if you can just obliterate enemies or avoid their attacks without any risk. Endurance value increases with combat length while raw power value is reduced, which should be the ideal balancing point for that choice. We do have some few places in which combat is longer but that’s where the ability to walk away from damage can nullify that trade-off.

In the case of null offhand, we need something that pushes the 1h weapon to be akin to a 2h weapon, yet that’s more of a specific side issue.

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two handed class final form is when they remove/increase damage limit , this is will happen

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new ktest patch notes:

ranger fletcher mergen rework arrived
ah, but still at ktest!
prepare to be changed again at ktos

Nice reworks all. I would guess the fencer/matador/monk/chaplain ones will have to wait for the next patch. Arditi seems to be getting some good changes too.

And then there is that utterly stupid silver removal from fields and nothing to make up for it.
No, getting mercenary badges doesn’t make up for it. You already get enough badges from other contents to get anything useful, since every useful thing there has got strict daily caps and/or can’t be sold. May as well delete fields and just put instances at this rate.

Will the 20% dmg bonus and 40% min CR on debuffs from the new mergen attribute apply to non- merg skills as well?

maybe?
it explain for 2h bow skill

mergen all skill is 2h bow


what is that 100% golden extract ichor?
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just confused about critical shot and crossbow interaction, from the google translate on nexon site seemed like crossbow would be 50% less effective, but from ktest.neet it looks like 50% increase.

The silver drop change arrived with this patch.
Still looking for some change on the mercenary shop…