Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v5.0

Just be patient for the SR changes, its happening.

You can already 1 hit episode 12 mobs with the renovate trigger or just over-gearing in general. When we get the Limacon ARTs and other extras its going to be solid.

You have to keep in mind though we are already the king of farming, its not fair to expect to be made god mode in raiding and bossing too, we just need a step up from flag bot slave in certain content is all.

Idk, I recently got my Renovate Trigger and am pretty happy with my SR, just gotta stick it out a couple more months.

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Sorry to say that but SR is no more the king of farming in all situation.
The best place for him is baubas cave and others HG.

Right now:
If you want farm ELITE (on field) for Vaivora: Cata/Lancer is way better (movespeed + dash)
if you want farm challenge mode solo or group: Wizard is the best

For challenge mode you can see the difference:
High Wizard vs High SR:

The new 50% crit damage + limacon arts will be maybe enough to make SR descent & After this, the only thing you need is gear & right build.

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I made a video of the new craftable Ark - Punishment. For those who are interested, please take a look~

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Can someone please translate the new Summoner class changes? thanks!

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friday, no new ktos/ktest update?

Summoner Classes (Sorcerer/Necromancer/Bokor)

Additional effects now apply to summons.

Among the different Enchant Jewel bonuses, only the following effects apply to summons.

-Main Weapon Damage
-Critical Damage
-Boss Damage

The effects of the caster’s cards are now applied to summons. However, while the effects of conditional damage cards are applied (such as increased damage when an enemy is [Frozen]), cards that trigger effects (such as chance to bleed when attacking) are not applied.

The effects of the caster’s armor mastery is now applied to summons.

The summon damage bonus of Desmodus and Gather Corpse is now a final damage bonus (multiplicative).

Previously, summons received a high damage increase effect of 840% or higher when using Desmodus or Gather Corpse, which lead to a relatively low benefit from other damage increase buff effects or item effects, and they could not benefit from many of them at all.

However, these effects have been improved so that they now transfer to summons, and the damage increase method of Desmodus and Gather Corpse has been adjusted so that summons can benefit from these effects the same way as other classes.

As a result, items that increased the damage of summons have been individually reviewed and adjusted.

image Desmodus

The damage increase method has been changed.
Old: Summon damage increase
New: Final summon damage increase

The damage increase coefficient has been changed.
Old: [SkillLevel] x 84%
New: 210 + [SkillLevel] x 10%

The Skill Factor has been changed.
Old: 518 + [SkillLevel-1] x 134.3
New: 271 + [SkillLevel-1] x 70.4

The cooldown has been changed.
Old: 20 seconds
New: 5 seconds

The overheat has been changed.
Old: 2 overheats
New: 1 overheat

image Gather Corpse

The damage increase method has been changed.
Old: Summon damage increase
New: Final summon damage increase

The damage increase coefficient has been changed.
Old: [SkillLevel] x 84%
New: 210 + [SkillLevel] x 10%

The Skill Factor has been changed.
Old: 735 + [SkillLevel-1] x 190.6
New: 1080 + [SkillLevel-1] x 280.3

The cooldown has been changed.
Old: 10 seconds
New: 5 seconds

The overheat has been changed.
Old: 3 overheats
New: 1 overheat

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Unlikely for kTest. They just did a content patch last week.

However. New kLive patch:

Only contains fixes to the new Glacier legend raid, and one other note:

Translation

We will provide information on the first clear of the White Witch’s Forest: Legend that occurred on June 30th (Tuesday).

The party that cleared hard mode for the first time used an extremely small amount of potions, and the party members have done very few raids.

The party members did not die, and they used the stack reset (Glacier Crystal) only once.

Therefore, we have judged that this was not a normal clear, and that a specific gimmick must not have been working correctly.

For this reason, we have removed both the Icicle Queen and Overcome Frostbite titles from the party, and the clear record for the hard mode raid has been reset.

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this armor bonuses will apply to summon too? image
and this changes apply for diev owl too ? :blush:

So damage boost drops from 840% to 310%.
Old: 100 + damage boosts (%) + 840 = boost + 940%
New: (100 + boost) * 3.1 = 3.1 * boost + 310%

This means for your summon to be as effective as before, you need to have extra (940 - 310) / 2.1 = 300% damage boosts on your character. If someone can tell me how to reach such percentage currently I’d be very glad to hear it…

Meanwhile, the SFR of the Desmodus skill itself has been butchered and is properly useless now, it’s just “spam on every mob to increase summon damage”. Why make simple when you can make complicated.

I’ve seen many people switch from summoner to elemental wizard recently, this will give the final blow to the class… I’ll probably switch Sorc to Shadowmancer on my dark wizard when this patch hits too.

You need to look wholly, it’s a buff but not as much. You need to consider all the % damage you can get for a sorcerer like card, leather mastery, accessory, new armor and all.

Not stated by IMC.

Not stated by IMC. They listed these changes under Sorcerer/Necromancer/Bokor.

Going to give my opinion on summon changes, since I’ve been dedicated to this role since beta.

My Opinion

The changes they did were necessary, good adjustments to solve fundamental design problems with summoner. Summoner had scaling problems and issues benefiting from a variety of bonuses through party synergy, new equipment, set bonuses, and more, all because their Desmodus and Gather Corpse implicitly provided over 1000% bonus damage. These WERE originally final damage modifiers, but IMC changed them to additive damage modifiers that ignored the standard limit for reasons I can’t even remember. Now, we have come full circle and we’re back to final damage again.

IMC did not seem to quite understand the ramifications of their actions, as summoner suffered ever since they changed it away from final damage. WBR buffs didn’t matter for summons as much as it did for other classes, they couldn’t scale as well as other classes in party content, and they continued to design equipment such as the new Kartas set that provides meager damage bonuses to summons, not realizing that a 40% damage bonus on top of 1000% is an extremely small increase in damage (and they were laughed at on the KR forum for it).

Summoner has always been an afterthought, and it’s not really a surprise; most DPS in the game are red classes and scale their damage in the same way, but summoner has its own color (purple) and follows completely different rules for gearing up, scaling their damage, etc. It’s honestly a miracle they were even relatively balanced lately compared to anything else, but as they add new content, more and more problems arise. Summoner is a gaping hole of design problems that they bandage every once in a while until it gets bad enough again that they have to bandage it, without ever solving the fundamental issues that make this constantly necessary compared to everything else.

This is a good step in the right direction, far from a full fix, as summoner has a huge number of problems still, and this introduced new problems too.

Problems

This is just a small list of examples.

-There is no new set built for summoners. IMC wants summoners to just use the new damage sets and have their summons gain the % damage buff, but Liris is still better by a large amount, so Summoner has to stick with Varna unless they nerf it or buff the new sets even more to the point where they can’t be ignored.

-Bokor is supposed to be the final piece of the summoner build, but it is awful in every respect. The summon scaling and skill factors make no sense and are extremely weak (Wheelchair Zombie has a default 8% SFR) and the class is also awful at casting spells to deal damage. With this update, Featherfoot has been cemented as mandatory, because the % damage buffs from it (Witch Doctor, Levitation) are now extremely effective. I’m honestly not sure why Bokor is completely ignored. Both Sorcerer and Bokor share a problem of not having enhance attributes for their summons too, so every time the enhance arts level cap is raised, Necromancer pulls ahead, while these two get weaker in comparison to every build in the game.

-IMC seems to really think summoner should use a rod for some reason. This started back with the addition of the raid “First Refuge”, when they added the Masinios Rod, a pure SPR rod. It continued with the Skiaclipse Rod, allowing you to summon 1 more skeleton, which is a mandatory swap every single time you want to do any content. Rods have always been terrible to use for summoner, causing you to deal objectively lower damage by a large amount, but with the addition of the new Vaivora Rod, it is now a nightmare. The only way to properly use this rod and take advantage of it is to weapon swap nonstop in combat for the skill level bonus it provides and the ability to double summon with Evocation. This build already had a packed, difficult rotation, but this is just awful for quality of life. It is not fun to play.

-Bugs. So many bugs that just never get fixed. Morph has a % chance to fail any time you use it for unknown reasons, Levitation and Riding can cause you to go extremely high in the sky which will glitch out mechanics in raids like Moringponia and kill you, you can get stuck Riding forever, etc. These make playing summoner frustrating, especially in difficult content, as you have to play the class while walking on eggshells to avoid bugs, and even then, they can still just happen sometimes at random, which can critically affect your ability to succeed.

-Content is not built with summons in mind; it is a huge diceroll on how summons will function in new content when it is released. They interact strangely with mechanics, they die or live at random based on the boss patterns, and their AI/leash range makes dealing with mechanics cumbersome and more difficult than most DPS. Summoner damage rotation is also so focused on lining up cooldowns and timers that mechanics can be extremely unfriendly for trying to maintain a steady amount of DPS. Here’s a few examples:

  1. If summons pull aggro on a boss, sometimes the boss will run in a direction chosen at random until they reach a wall. If this happens in WBR, you basically have to restart (it happens almost every run).
  2. Bosses like Rexipher/Nuaele/more use an attack that aims at random targets in the area (for example, Rexipher’s giant green pillars). If you are alone, most of these pillars will hit the ground around at random, but a couple will hit you directly. Attacks that function this way all get laser focused onto the group of summons, and cause all of the summons to get splashed by all of the beams at once. If you are standing there, you are likely instantly dead, as you get shotgunned by all of the AoEs.
  3. Bosses like Helgasercle use an attack that must be avoided or you will die very quickly; attacks like these just melt your summons (her slow, creeping blood balls in this case) in seconds.
  4. The triple orb in mechanic in WBR is awful for summoner. You can only choose to remove the boss’s physical or magical defense, but summoner is the only DPS build that deals both of these types of damage (outside of very specific cleric builds), so no matter which way you choose, your damage is bricked.
  5. The void mechanic in WBR that throws a giant ball lowers your final damage by 80% if you are hit by it. Summons do not understand this, do not avoid it, and most of the time will just have to deal with losing a ton of damage for a period of time.

Summoner is not player friendly. Lately, instead of it just being weak like it has always been in the game’s history, playing it is an exercise in frustration. Any new content is a learning experience to figure out how it will all go wrong trying to play summoner in it. Getting any attention from IMC is a blessing or a curse, because anytime they try to touch it, it’s a total mystery what’s going to happen.

I consider it a miracle that I’ve accomplished all that I have with it, but for now, I’ve just hit my limit with the game, so I’m going to take an extended break. I’ll stick around on the forums and try to do what I can to help, as I still care about the game, but I do not enjoy playing it right now (and for more reasons than just summoner problems).

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They just want more space for botters by eliminating lazy people who can’t even activate Steam Guard.

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This seems to be the case for most of us vets right now.

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Yeah not even comparable.
Not to mention Pyro is must in any high end future cm due to insanely strong cc too.

Do you have the original link for this patch? Thank you for the translation!

My idea of summoned monster/zombie etc. should be invulnerable to any attacks. Better still if the caster received damage or dies thats when the summon also dissapear. In this case summoner will be more efficient in terms of its usability. As for the damage, it will be better for IMC to atleast remove the “bandage “ limiting the user to equip other than Rod in this case. But knowing IMC they prefer to never ending make “Costumes” rather than fixing the whole problem.

Then now Sorcerer is probably going to use Glacier Staff (Kurdaitcha is a magic circle, I hope it activates the staff’s passive), which would be much stronger than using a Rod for Vaivora Rod. Still, we would have to use a clean Vaivora Rod in the swap slot just for casting desmodus (alongside the skiaclipse rod for +1 skeleton, will have to summon the skeleton then swap the “swap rod” into vaivora… oh my god)… another ‘not-fun’ strategy, but much better than having to enhance/transcend/ichor/gem/enchant rod AND staff+trinket. I just hope they create some kind of necromancer Vaivora Staff (since each vaivora is for one class, necro still haven’t got one).

Sorcerer bonus change:
Old: 100% base +924% (desmodus +1 with gem, party or vaivora, considering lowest case) + any bonuses = 1024% + bonuses
New: 100% base + bonuses x [100 + 310% (desmodus +1)] = 410% + [4.1 x bonuses]

In order to beat old 1024% + bonuses, those bonuses should be higher than ~198% (~180% if no +1 is available, or even ~231% if +3 [gem/vaivora/divine might]). This can be “easily” archived with Isgarinti, which enables a stronger endgame for Sorcerers, but an even weaker start for a class that requires double Ignas to actually start being effective. Well, it is a start, at least…

Did IMC mention anything about BUFFS affecting summons? Cards, enchantments and armor bonuses will apply as stated, will also Levitate’s attribute?

IMC seems to have a great prejudice against the summoning class, because it never does anything that leaves the class overpower … There we have the Scout, Archer until Sword that had their mega classes valued, with absurd damages (let’s not forget the current fashion of Cleric tree).

She never made a change that, for example, the summoner was 0.1% like Blosson and this is nothing more because of the EXTREME SLOPE of creating a system that provides anti bot.

Every change in class always seems to come to make it more difficult, more complicated to play, all because of the bots.

I thought it more worthy to delete these classes right away (as it did with Centurion), because those who like to play get excited, spend a lot of time, a resource for the IMC to come and ruin the class in a short time.

It is practically impossible to make the current contents end game, first you don’t find PT, second when you find the extremely complex mechanics make you lose damage.

Look at Weekly, how many Sorcer / Necro are so TOP 10 …

Dica: Oh caralho, para e ouve a comunidade, OUVE A PORRA dos jogadores que usam a classe antes de meter mudança diaba!

Even as a class fantasy, sorcerer doesnt really feel much of a summoner when youre constantly controlling your summon manually and managing debuffs so your summons can actually contribute.
The Arts for sorc would make the sorc devil more independant, but current bossing meta summons need positioning to maximise damage, which forces you to do it manually.
I was considering just giving up being viable and making necromancer and maybe bokor without sorcerer to really feel like an actual summoner, while having my character managing basic elemental spells. Just because you’re a summoner, doesn’t mean that your character should be a complete idiot at casting their own magicks, but theres no viable way to combine summoners with anything aside from featherfoot, though that is more of a character fantasy for me rather than for gameplay mechanic reasons, i just feel like a summoner mage should be able to stand their ground, even when their summons are crippled, but obviously at a reduced power. Feather foot is even more solified as the final choice after the final damage change which admittedly is a good change for the future, but severely cripples summoners at lower investment levels of the game, which makes it even harder to tough through earlygame summoners subpar damage, which is only carried because gather corpse is actually a good AoE skill.

Sorcerer hasnt gotten a single new boss card update since ignas raid, which is a level 380 raid i believe. With every new raid, i had anticipated some new boss card, while maybe not being the meta replacing ignas or anything, but just a fresh breath of air.
But with every unique raid and legend raid being the exact same raid but with differing mechanics has significantly lowered the possiblity to add more demon cards to the game.

Alternatively, you could just rework or buff some of the already tons of exisiting summons in the game, but i guess its easier for IMC to balance sorcerer around a few select summons that define the powerlevel of sorc, but it kinda ruins the whole point of the grimoire mechanic in my eyes, aside from being an entry barrier to being useful.

The’re in the kLive patch notes for last week, which was previously linked in this thread.

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