Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v4.0

General Discussion
#4217

I like to think there’s always a reason behind everything, not everything that IMC does but, everything in general. Sometimes there’s no valid reason for things to be changed but you gotta look beyond the skill set of the class. Cannoners have huge aoe and an amazing damage skill, yes, if you look at Cannon Shot you’d think it’s a godlike thing to have. But you need some things in account before coming to this kind of conclusion. Cannoners are now unable to use any other damage skills outside its class except for a few due to weapon restrictions and also how its strongest mechanic works. As far as i’m concerned Bazooka plays a very important role on a Cannoners dps and the fact that the only skills they’re able to use during this stance are exclusively Cannoner’s would make them very lacking in comparison to something like a Mergen based build, or even a Musketeer who are still able to use other skills while they’re able to move. If it wasn’t for the fact that they make up for this with power, that’s why i think Cannon Shot is still a balanced skill. Hell, ask yourself how much effort a Cannoner will have to put after the update, or even right now to find a decent spot to not get absolutely demolished by a boss’ attacks. There’s also the case of Monk, but i won’t say much about this class because i am not a Monk player and i don’t know the class enough, but i think the new nature of Double Punch will lead to a great auto-attack based dps potential. Remember that not everything in a class revolves around content like Challenge Mode, there are many other sintuations in which classes will have highs and lows, and i think that’s fine.

Perhaps the problem within the Archer branch is not about the lack of classes, but the lack of situations in which a class is might “shine” instead. Which in fact not only affects Archer but branches in general. For example most of the time whenever i look up for videos showcasing a class’ skill set i never get to see each skill individually and how it’s utility might be useful in combat, but rather a mixture of everything randomly placed in a attempt to demonstrate the capacities of a class through things like Challange Mode. Which really, there’s just no correct way of soloing this thing without getting absolutely crushed in the process or getting into a really tiny place and pumping as many AoE abilities as possible, only a few classes are able to accomplish this successfully, so i think we need to get over this. I never get to see a video demonstrating things like how Howling might increase the overall dps of a party. How a Deploy Pavise correctly placed could improve the damage consistency of a Cannoner by giving them a better survivability tool. How skills like Pied Piper’s Hynotische Floete can smooth out dungeon objectives like the first and third part of Velcoffer’s Nest or how powerful the knockback immunity of Marschierendeslied can prove to be on any boss battle. I think that perhaps the main reason behind things like “lack of diversity” could be our own fault, since we are often more interested on how many numbers a class pull off by itself rather than how its abilities can be beneficial to a fight.

About the armor break thing, wait until the update or more informative videos are out and ask yourself if we really do need something like armor break after the update.

1 Like
#4218

I don’t see that the same way. If they want to nerf FFs because they can heal themselves then they should tone down the healing skills themselves, not Kundela which has absolutely nothing to do with it. What if I wanted to play a FF but care very little about healing myself? You’re not obligated to take Blood Sucking / Blood Bath. Scale down these skills damages, or healing ability itself.

It’s hard to curse enemies while flying, because you’d have to rely entirely on Bone Pointing (can’t use Kurdaitcha while flying). And to be honest, having to curse enemies before using Kundela is something negative, not positive. You are not considering the fact you need to walk around mobs, curse them, and then actually do Kundela, when in the meantime, you could’ve already thrown at least 2 overheats of magic missile (but realistically, let’s make it 3, because walking up to mobs + gathering them inside Kundela’s small AoE also takes a while).

If you don’t like my Kundela example, let me show you something more drastic:

Shadow Thorn always hits only 1 monster. If and only if that monster isn’t flying, then the attribute works and it deals an additional hit. If you consider it in terms of overall dps, hitting at least 2 monsters with Magic Missile already evens out the overall damage it can do compared to Shadow Thorn on a non-flying mob.

And hey, I’m comparing all these with a wizard basic class skill.

4 Likes
#4219

was it answered already? The text means: ground-based AoE holy attacks make the Discerning-evil debuff spread to nearby mobs.

The discerning evil skills hits for 100% of your magic attack and the debuff-extension is applied to any debuffs currently on the enemy.

It was tested and the holy skills which work are: hamaya (miko), nachash (kabba), aqua benedicta (exorcist).
Cure: no.
Merkabah: no.

You may view it here:

Looks good.

8 Likes
#4220

disagree on that, some classes offers unique flavors for a reason, even if a player does not like it, does not change the fact that there something that still makes some classes uniques and in this case of FF and it’s ability to deal with healing/blood is on their concept or at least in the concept IMC is using and i feel that if we would start to remove or bring down things like that, everything in the end would become DPS DPS DPS, IS those things that makes classes unique, and IMC should reinforce this even more and in some sense this is the plan of re, to reinforce their roles, so in my opinion they should buff this even more in FF even if it means removing their damage a little.
but does not mean you are wrong, nor i’m right.
is just a opinion, i still agree with you IF a player does not like to take this skills they should not take it and the class should still be viable outside of those skills too but this also does not mean that they should not be penalized in some form because they choice not to take those skills and this should happens with FF of course the penalty should not be big enough so the class is not viable anymore but still some penalty should be applied if you choice to ignore some skills because you do not like even more if they are part of the concept of the character (something that happening too much with current version).
if the class really deserves a buff? maybe it does i still have not seen a good ff build in re yet, but i have seen a lot of cleric videos and some wizard videos, and as stated before being able to HEAL is a big deal right now and the class deserves to have a overall lower DPS because of it’s ability to heal, just like classes that have CC, deserves this as well,this was even stated in the preview of re, where they are going to take those things in consideration when balancing the class.

Yet,once we look that every class from now on are suppose to be just a rank 2 class, since they are fitting to be taken at lvl 20-30 at the first choice and shadow is one of them ^^, so the power gap between a base class and next rank class are not suppose to be too much outside of their extra 30 skill points who in turn would give bigger number of skills and options to choice from, but the skill itself are not suppose to overpower the other ones, this would include the base one of course, is all the point of RE to make skills viable across the board, this should include base classes. .
but following with your example: shadow thorn you get a burst of close to 1k% against one mob if the mob is ground 3x the MM damage against one mob as well (because mm missile will not bounce!),plus shadowthron are still able to be boosted for a extra bonus with curse too, reaching up to 5x MM damage something that MM will never do in all their life.
comparing a aoe damage spell with single target would not be a equal value exchange it never was in any game of rpg and this is true in tos as well!
in the end this is what some may call balance, you change 3x the single target damage, against a multi hit skill,that only does more damage if there enough mobs to bounce from one another.
But in the end what i see is that MM is GOOD and i suppose it is, just like any one basic class skill from other classes, MM is suppose to be a good entrance skill that works well, even more when we look at all other bases classes, who have heals, damage reduction, or huge evasion buff.
remember again; FF and shadowman can be taken as close as level 20 once you reach 15 skill in class too and both skills that you mentioned are also entrance skills of those classes that is also made to be used as earlier as level 20 together WITH mm, just like any other class, and the entire point of re was to make everything more in baseline, and this would include base class too, so entrance skills or even at one on one skills are suppose to be like that in my opinion, but overall FF and shadow would offer more skills to work with making it stronger than a base class but if we are to look at both those classes “ONLY” at their level 15 in rank they should still have the same or similar power level as the base class, this was the entire point of re after all even if a class is base or not the difference in power should come with the extra 30 skills points and skills.

#4221

I like the new Pardoner discerning evil buff/spread mechanic, but it’s kind of a shame it doesn’t work innately with Plague Doctor. PD has no holy attacks to spread with but can still spread with the (now tiny) pandemic.

I wonder if Discerning Evil might be an even better way of spreading debuffs.

2 Likes
#4222

Nope, thanks for the answer man.

Bit of a shame that hamaya(35s cd) and Nachash (30s cd) don’t mash to well with its 15s cd.
But Aqua Benedicta’s 20s cd is a lot closer so that could see some use.
Though these aren’t exactly classes that rely on debuffs, so it’s more oriented at helping your teammates out and getting a bit more dmg.

@frustratedsquirrel2:

Incineration: contagion attribute might work, assuming it even transfers discern evil ofc.

#4223

If only Gevurah spreads with Discerning evil… Pardoner could be a good class to use alongside Kabbalist.

#4224

I wonder if it will spread things that Pandemic won’t spread though.

With Pandemic being heavily nerfed in range, I imagine my PD/Paladin/Pardoner build is going to use this to spread Conviction around more than Pandemic.

But I wonder if we can spread things like monk bleeds?

#4225

Guys i see people only talking about Double Punch, but i didn’t see anyone testing the new Energy Blast, i know has long casting but see this new buffs that Krivis + Zeloat + Golden Bell gives, also resets the CD of the Energy Blast check that, and if anyone could test, i would be very happy <3

Physical Attack = 12000

Energy Blast Lv.10 = 171% + Lv.100 Atributte = 274%
+
Zalciai Lv.15 = 15% Critical Damage and 5% Critical Strike Chance
+
Divine Stigma Lv.10 = 2x Hits Energy Blast Supose 2x Damage +50% Damage on enemies if the Damage is Devil more 50% Increase Damage
+
Beady Eyed Lv.15 = 45% Critical Damage for 10 seconds and 100% Critical Chance for 1.5 Seconds
+
Immolation Lv.1 = Armor Break 50% for 5 seconds
+
Fanaticism = 80% Incresce Damage but you can not HEAL for 15 seconds
+
Golden Bell Shield = 50% Increase Damage for 10 seconds on Monk Skills and reset all Monk Skills too
+
Blind Faith = more 50% critical damage increase on enemies for 10 seconds
=
How Much Damage a the New Energy Blast based on the new damage formulas could be cause? Considering the new CD is 20 seconds and cast is not interrupt !! AND can add even more damage using Glass Mole cards and Kraujas Sets maybe.

image

  • Image without Kraujas effect in the actual server Atributte Lv.81 and 7000 Physical Attack -
1 Like
#4226

Energy blast + Rubric on the same build (2h mace) hybrid BEAMUU build? (krivis/exo/monk)

#4227

Hmm. Doesn’t exo-deiv make a better choices for beam build given you have matk to focus on. It would also be on a 12 sec cd. You wouldn’t be locked into krivis just for the combo either.

#4228

Diev doesn’t have any beam. The idea here is to have two beams to cast just as a fun build, not a really efficient one.

#4229

I suppose owls are too wide to be considered a beam.

#4230

yeah their aoe has completely changed to a circular radius around the statue.

#4231

Speaking of owls (again), anyone know if sanctuary affects them?

#4232

(Just my opinions, IMC probably still balancing stuff, don’t take my words as confirmed since IMC is prone to changing stuff at the drop of a hat for now)

With the numbers Monk has now in ToS 2.0, Energy Blast is probably the strongest damage skill in Monk’s arsenal given Krivis (quite weak at the moment) is taken or you have a fellow Krivis to debuff everyone under Divine Stigma. With that said, what works in theory isn’t the same as what works in practice. There are a few problems with the stacking, mainly due to Energy Blast itself that makes that stack fall apart quite a bit and making Energy Blast lackluster.

Energy Blast in kTest takes 5 seconds to charge compared to the current 2.5 seconds, making the skill unusable with Immolation (5s armor break) and Beady Eyed (1.5s confirmed crit, 5s increased crit rate). Divine Stigma isn’t working as the skill description should, from what I’m seeing with regards to the 50% increased damage (either a bug or a description error). so simply count the double hits. Golden Bell Shield buff lasts 10s so Monks will have to fire Energy Blast right away and a few hits (1-3 hits) will still not get the benefit (nothing much). Duration-wise, a few buffs will probably have to be omitted since Energy Blast can’t benefit from it.

Energy Blast got their “surespell” effect, which is a glorious thing Monks needed to make that skill usable, but the vital part of the skill was changed, it being Energy Blast Remove Knockdown Attribute being removed from the game, rendering the skill unusable with mobs. No matter how strong Energy Blast can be, all mobs will end up flying to the horizon and not get the full amount of hits anyways, and only with bosses or things that resist knockback can get the full amount.

Guess with that said, the stacking will probably be:
Energy Blast + Zalciai + Divine Stigma + Fanaticism + Blind Faith + Golden Bell Shield

Feels like IMC wants Monks to start using Energy Blast as a DPS skill, but its still situational at best for now.

2 Likes
#4233

Before the knockback attribute existed, groups would gather mobs in a corner so that energy blast would keep them in one place. It would not be too difficult to do this again.

1 Like
#4234

I know, but in a party setting (other than CM, since players like to do it in a tight corner) most of the time one usually does not have a wall to make mobs take the full brunt.

#4235

Honestly, I think it would be nice if we could start looking past the mantra of “if it has knockdown, it’s bad!”.

If every skill has to have a no-knockdown trait, then there’s little reason for the knockdown to exist in the first place. Things like punji stake need their chance to shine too! (I still think that skill is way overlooked)

of course, there’s a reason why players don’t like knockdowns as it takes enemies away from the kill zone in some cases. What could be done to alleviate this problem? Give the knockdown moves more damage? Make the knockdowns shorter?

#4236

What other party settings would you be referencing? Dungeon runs?

@frustratedsquirrel2

This has it right. Knockback is a good thing when the mobs actually do damage. It became trivial because the game became trivial.

You will be begging for knockbacks once mobs are pushing your ■■■■ in.