Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v4.0

mob skills usually remain the default like when they changed ice spike the enemies still use the original version…

unless they go the extra mile on this RE I doubt anything outside of player skill will change

me trying to stay sane in 2.0
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and a stolen meme from discord

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If that’s the case, guess I’ll start envying the mobs from now on :unamused:

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Yes, monster heal tiles are still there

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I’m in favor of healing tiles as it put the burden on both players. That said IMC is gonna do what it wants anyway and ignore the pleas for tiles to come back so here is my QoL suggestion for targeted heal.

Show the HP of the associated character on the directional choices.

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Is Krivis Zalciai still a tile debuff skill?

Yeah it sounds like we just fundamentally disagree with what ‘interactive’ gameplay actually means, because Remiri’s perspective just doesn’t resonate with me at all and it’s just starting to boil down to differences in gameplay design philosophies at this point. Nor am I particularly convinced that IMC couldn’t balance around the concept of heal tiles if they actually just worked on the effects of the tiles/tweaked the numbers.

And yes I know the new heal is interactive, but what I’m saying is that the old heal is more interactive.

Take this example: I need to deliver an apple to my friend who’s doing some paperwork. I have some options. I can walk over and put the apple in their mouth, put the apple down on the same table, or get their attention and then throw the apple to them.

If I take the latter options, my friend needs to exert some amount of spatial awareness and decision making in order to get their apple. They either have to reach over and grab it or turn around and catch it, exerting basic hand eye coordination in the process.

With the old heal, I have the option to do all of these things. With the new heal, the only option I have is to walk up and put the apple in that person’s mouth. Sure the old heal may not be the most efficient but it’s much more fun and requires more thought from both parties than the new one does.

Personally? I think the reason they’re changing to this new heal is because they think it will attract people who are used to a more basic heal from WoW or RO to ToS because the skill is more familiar as a standard in MMOs.

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So is no one going to say anything about why thaumaturge swell hands buff is only 10% bonus attack when currently on live with all swell buffs you can gain more than 4k magic/physical attack if your a geared thaumaturge.

At least they could have made it give a bit more bonus damage 20-25% but 10% isn’t going to do much after patch forcing thaumaturge to be really just a farming class.

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then rogue can capture that heal tile or thaum reversi them

Whether you liked the Heal tile based mechanics or not, because of its uniqueness or “efectiveness”, no matter how you put it to me this skill always promoted lazy and cheap gameplay thatpersonally, always conflicted with some of the core mechanics of my class and my playstyle as a whole. You really cannot defend a skill like Heal no matter how unique or convenient it was for you, it was ultimately, in a way, unhealthy for the game.

I’ve played Archer since around the time the game was released and it is a class that i enjoy a lot, if it wasn’t for the fact that i also like to play Hunter, to be more specific, but that’s besides the point. We all know the basic concepts of the classic archer archetype in RPGs: Decent damage but low risk due to their attack range.
From the very beginning the game teaches you that due to your range there’s no need to put yourself in any danger, so as the game progressed i became used to this sort of playstyle which i liked. Until i reached end game. The kind of gameplay this game promotes due to things like the full CON meta made combat a comflicting matter for me as the basic “strategy”, and the most used as well, was just simply gather everybody on the same spot and spam the aforementioned skill. Yes, i’m looking at you Challenge Mode. Most of my end game dungeon runs always followed the same strategy, hug the boss and blow as many dps skills in a rotation as possible. To give you a more graphic example of the situation:

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I’m not sure how many of you followed this, but as for me this was always “the best” strategy for my Velcoffer runs. And as you can see, i’m not following it. Is it because i’m stupid you would argue? maybe, but it’d say it is rather because that’s the way i was taught to play, so it is something instinctive, i can’t battle it. I am an Archer, and you’d know that we are VERY squishy, leading to which another unhealthy thing that was promoted by the full CON meta and the need for people to follow it in other to fit this sort of strategy. The reason why i actually appreciate the changes regarding stats in the game. Things like full CON meta and “hug the boss strategies” only promoted cheap and lazy gameplay that people followed due to the grindy nature of the game and “doing things as fast and efficient as possible”. I enjoy fighting at range, it’s what my class was meant to do and in many of this occasions i usually ended up with very low amount of heals that left me in the prodicament of whether to stay far in order to stay alive or risk my ass to die by walking back to the safe zone for the same reason. This is why i could never enjoy Tree of Savior to the fullest, it provides NO challenge with how things currently are. I’d point out many other things such as how every other boss battle like the 330 Unique Raid was reduced to “throw revive and heal me through damage and it’ll be good” as opposed to well thought decision in combat, but this wall of text is long enough already.

To summarize, whether you like the Heal changes or not, it is for the best.

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See that’s not how I play heal at all.

I never just have my heal tiles laying down on the ground like that next to chortasmata, and if I see you running off by yourself and starting to take damage, I’ll move OVER to you and cast a heal nearby you where the boss isn’t going to steal it, then run back to the rest of the party while holding onto my last heal overheat just in case something happens.

I completely disagree that heal didn’t promote healthy gameplay. Having players keep a mechanic like heal in mind is more dynamic than just relying on the healer 100% to do all the mechanics for you.

Also, 'doing things as fast and efficient as possible is the nature of all MMO content of this type. It’s not nearly as bad in ToS as it is in some others I play (gw2 again) and if anything, Chortasmata is a much bigger problem than heal.

Also if you’re not following the meta, then that’s your choice. Don’t call for an interesting heal skill to be removed for players who actually do enjoy it just because you don’t want to play around it. Boss hugging is kind of a staple strategy in most mmos with raids. You really shouldn’t be positioning yourself that way regardless of what kind of heal the game has.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter what we think about Heal, I want to know what the korean playerbase thinks of these changes. Ultimately they’re the ones who’ll be able to influence IMC’s decisions.

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That’s cute, but wrong.
And just your opinion, not a fact. And it’s your reasoning is faulty as well.

Don’t get me wrong, there is a good argument that current heal-tile does hinder placement tactics and mobility, but it’s not a necessary part of its own mechanic.
Rather its due to it cd+oh which forces you to place only two clumps at a time, which can easily be fixed just with different cd/oh ofc.

Secondly, that still didn’t change just because heal alone did.
We still have chortasmata, world tree, restoration, indulgentia, tree of sephiroth and much more promoting a packed grouping over anything else.

I don’t want to get to much in the rest of the heal debate, I think it’s more up to preferences then anything else. (I’m in camp tile ofc :stuck_out_tongue: )
But I can see the benefits of a reliable heal for cleric, especially for PvP, but I also wonder if IMC can actually make that happen now given how their new targeting system has already been failing in ktest. (I hope you like healing objects)

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I am talking from personal experience. Based on what you say i’d say that you’re a good healer by nature, but that wasn’t the case for me. Being forced by my party members to fit such strategy was very common.

I don’t really see how dropping some tiles on the ground and waiting for people to step on them is in any way a difficult thing to do. Again, based on what you described before i could say that you are a pretty good healer, the kind that gets out of its way to help others. But this is how i see the skill, it really puts no weight on the healer, or the party members for that matter since as mentioned before deep into the discussion, why would i have to care about avoiding boss mechanics if there’s always going to be some kind healing available?

When i watched the trailer for this game i don’t remember excessive grinding being mentioned in it, at least for me the game has been infamous for it. And you could argue that i’m not “hardcore enough”, but as for me and many others, i really don’t enjoy a grinding as it often doesn’t reward me enough for my efforts.

This is not about meta, it’s about how my class is supposed to be played. In haven’t played any other MMO in which i, as a range class, is forced to fight at melee rage other than specific boss mechanics. And here i am forced to do that in other to fit an strategy that conflicts with the core mechanics of my class, i don’t how is that good combat design.

So what you are saying is that if people start beating you up with frozen chocolate bars and hardened bread then we should abolish all chocolate and bread cause they are bad for the world?_?

Isn’t it more lazy to blame the skills than the lazy people that use them wrongly :unamused:

you cant be lazy, we got bots and system for that…

But this skills were not meant as a main healing tool, they are there to provide ways to bypass certain combat mechanics. If these skills had the same issue as Heal, their cooldowns would be way shorter, and their duration way longer, they’re not meant to make you permanently invulnerable.

I’m interested with what Wurmheart said, what did Ktest players specifically said about the changes?

My only worry with the new heal changes is a Hybrid/Dps cleric builds won’t be accepted to parties since other DPS builds from other class performs better. Meanwhile a full healer would significantly outperform a hybrid (heal wise). I feel like a party in the Re:meme needs a mandatory healer.

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People will always do as far as their given tools allow them to, so yes, i’d blame the skills since the nature in its design encourages players to apply this kind of uses.

Just to be clear, i am not against Heal, but rather how it is set as the main healing tool. Heal is just way to powerful for its availability in my opinion, if possible i’d wish for it not to be removed but rather given to another class more specialized.

(I still haven’t figured out how to reply to many posts at once. Apologies.)

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What about the fact that in Velcoffer you can just face hug Velcoffer and he doesn’t cast his purple puddle on the ground making the fight 100% easier or just ignores your entire team because your diev statue somehow out agros everyone and he just does nothing and uses an auto attack that does 1 dmg to the statue and your healer just keeps on healing it back up (LUL times easy Velcoffer run). Using revenge seven fold when his casting magic brake to immune the dmg and return it back at him. Using druid Sterea Trofh to ignore reversi mechanic just in case someone fu cked up.

All of these promote this type of gameplay and your team just has to worry about not dying while velcoffer cleaves and charges in one diction (a wall) for the entire fight.

Maybe they should re-evaluate monster AI for bosses so that they stay away from a wall or face away from the walls so they can use their designed mechanics properly instead of just tank and spanking them.
Give them timers when they use their abilities with forced health brake points so the players can do some kind of mechanics instead of what we currently have.

Velcoffer is way better end game content then ET but in the end its just a numbers check and a tank/spank scenario.

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When you say "I don’t have to care about avoiding the boss mechanics because I know there’s always going to be some healing available’, that doesn’t have anything to do with heal tiles as a mechanic though. That has to do with the abundance of healing…which can be toned down while still keeping the tiles intact.

If we use the ‘new’ heal method we can still have an abundance of heals if it’s overtuned. Likewise, if a single person has to consume an entire row of tiles just to full heal, then rationing and smart judgement about how many tiles you consume becomes a factor. The rationing is the responsibility of both the healer AND the heal target and that’s super interesting. Much less binary than single-target heal.

Also “I don’t see how it’s so hard to just walk up to someone and drop tiles!” well…that’s because you don’t get the nuance of heal as a skill, and I’ve already gone over that plenty of times. I know that sounds pretentious, but think about it like this. A tile that requires a teammate to move over to it and stand on it is still more skill-based than no movement necessary at all.

Also, how a class is ‘supposed’ to be played varies very much from game to game.

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You are lucky not everyone share your mentality or you would be living on a cave instead of a house cause stones were used to kill people and make weapons before they were used to create shelters and protect others :expressionless:


Highlight the message and a [Quote] icon should appear, click on it and do the same for rest of people you want to respond to or to divide a post by responses or topic…

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