Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v4.0

I don’t know what game you played, because i remember myself farming in almost every map of the game, maybe for a rare card, for a quest, to get materials to make a cute hat, to mvp or maybe just for exp, but man, you can’t compare the variety of usable maps between RO and TOS. In TOS is like

tenet->demon prison->kalejimas-> cm and dungeon

In old pre-renewal RO i had to change the grind map every 3-5 levels maybe since 75 or so. Not counting i had to farm in several maps to get a decent equip. Here i just have to run the same instance again and again.

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Yeah, that’s what I mean. By comparison, ToS’s progression is very linear. Even if I didn’t have a good reason to move maps in RO, I would do it anyway to have more variety while leveling.

Enemies in RO were a lot more varied and interesting too. they would use skills on you and had their own movement patterns. They could stack up on each other and be trained around for more than just 5 enemies at a time, and they were way more aggressive on average. If you bit off more than you could chew, the enemies would mow you down mercilessly (sometimes in a manner that felt unfair, but experienced players learned to work around this with quick fly-wing-fu reflexes)

Every mob in RO also had different EXP/Job exp spreads. There are some outliers like this in ToS, such as Hallowventers and Jeromel Park, but compared to RO it is very rare to see enemies who reward a specific style of hunting.

you often had to think about a lot more than just “are there flying mobs here?” in RO, and I wish IMC would be a bit more bold with their enemy designs in ToS. I loooove the monster and enemy designs in ToS, they are beautiful, but for the most part they’re a bunch of meat puppets who stand around and then move and attack veeeeeery slowly.

Anyway, remeniscing about RO isn’t constructive. I’m sure IMC hear this complaint more than enough, and over time they have certainly done a lot to make ToS feel more alive compared to how it was in closed beta. Yikes. I just have to disagree when people forget how cool RO’s good elements were and why some players felt baited by ToS’s design philosophy.

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you are comparing an external server non main old game with a main not out of the crawling phase game…

is like setting up a 3 year old vs an adult on a fight…

if you want to be fair, you should start With RO Original second world map version instead of final…

(wish I still had an image but I doubt it even exist anymore :frowning: )

Actually that’s not it at all. RO’s design was fundamentally better for encouraging an MMO environment. ToS on the other hand, have chosen linear design as their game’s core.

Drawing on experiences from what made RO great, they don’t need 20 years to figure out what would make ToS feel alive like RO’s game world. In fact they DIALED DOWN ON IT from launch in some aspects, like removing the ability to start in Orsha, placing all dungeons in Klapedia leaving Fedimian a total ghost town with very little purpose.

Basically IMC wanted a more controlled and streamlined experience in hope that it would appeal more to western gamers, which was a big issue early on when they messed up the questing/grinding balance (that’s since been fixed quite nicely imo) but at the cost of game world depth. Many old fans of RO who looked to ToS as their savior were expecting the opposite.

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I agree with this, that in an attempt to make the game more friendly they stepped on their adventurous toes…

Yeah, I think ToS is actually in a better spot than it ever was, but IMC needs to start making bolder and more interesting decisions instead of playing it as safe as they possibly can if they want to stand out.

A good example of this is how many half-assed systems there are in the game right now.

There is so much potential untapped in things like shop classes. Just look at the alchemist tree. They have an entire skill dedicated to transmuting items and yet it feels like a system that was shoved in without any thought behind it.

It doesn’t matter, i dont think we ever get to the point we have to grind like 20 different maps, with different mechanics and several mobs, to get to max level or complete a full gear combo. I mean, i hope so, but i really doubt it.

Grinders are loud, but we aren’t many…

most people don’t know what true grinding is and heck even I have forgotten…

Don’t really think it is fair to compare the 2 games though. RO has come a long way… since 2002 till now and it has like 15~16 years to refine its gameplay, add mechanics and such.

Although RO is nostalgic to me, it also have its fair share of shortcomings. At least in the version of RO that I’ve played many many years back. I left RO (for WoW) after Juno was implemented, that was like 2004-2005? RO at that time… was much worse than ToS currently in terms of balancing, if comparing both which had around 2-3 years worth of updates.

WoE barely started at that time, game was plagued with DEX/INT wizards 1hko everyone with their “l33t skillz” (what is so leet with spamming 2 aoes zzz). Entire game boils down to who has the most white potions since potion spamming has no cooldown at all. Balancing at its finest.

So yeah, that was RO when it had 2years+ of updates. What about ToS with 2years+ of updates?

===================================

The current ToS Re:build makes content much harder which is very much welcomed. Finally we are out of the musou style gameplay.

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The RO VS TOS struggle again? really? just a fair share of info: if i am not mistaken RO got its new classes like thief 2/3 years after release sooo hey TOS too xD

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Oh don’t get me wrong, Ro is kind of a broken mess.

It’s just the ideas behind it were, I feel, a lot more oldschool fun. It didn’t feel like it held players hands or pandered, and it had a lot to really sink your teeth into and learn.

ToS has some good learning curve but you have to admit the game is way too easy and forgiving to new players. I introduced my friend to ToS and he loved it and is still playing (with his almost max lv bullet marker now) but a common question he kept asking me was "so when does it pick up? Do the quests get any better thant his?) and his first time feeling any challenge was a lv 315 CM, after which he said it felt awsome to actually get to use his character properly.

In RO you feel that kind of struggle right from the start.

Also yes, I am very excited for harder monsters.

I totally agree with you, but i wasn’t discussing about balance, it’s about variety. I don’t think we will get to a point when IMC say “no you can’t longer grind from 1-300 in three maps, you have to go to these 50 maps, make quest to unlock them and have specific gear to this one”. The game atm looks like rush 390 and then velco velco velco.

I think the Warframe and PoE community very much understand and appreciate what good grind is, and so do the developers of those games. Those are both really big games at the moment with substantial and recognized fandoms.

If we had more of that kind of grind in ToS I think it could only make the game better. I don’t need old RO grind numbers back, but I would love some of that RO grind diversity and complexity.

To lazy to post the images, but rjgtav database have the ignas armor, all of them…

https://tos.guru/ktest/database/equipment

cheers

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Corsair/Linker/thaum in action. this player doesn’t seem to be in a party, but is Pillaging still in the game?

Who ever at imc is doing the armour stat design what were you thinking when you made this item. Why did you think INT is a good stat to have on an item like this that people will want to ichor. It clearly should be CON instead of INT, you have 3 stats that have synergy between each other plus the set effect and then you ruin the item by giving it INT. INT clearly should not be a stat provided by this item because its clearly catered towards physical damage dealers and there is currently 0 classes in the Re: patch that scale with dex and int.

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a item like what? leather?

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Yes

20chars20chars20chars20chars

and why a leather can’t/shouldn’t have int?

do you not see that it provides INT with a effect bonus for physical damage dealers with physical damage dealer stats