KToS General Thread v3.0 LOL

[Kihseki]

You are placing the same expectations on corsair as you would a doppel, fencer or beyond. It is in a rank between rodelero/cataphract and those classes mentioned, but even considering that it’s already going beyond what is expected. Corsair doesn’t eat into your r8 class picks and it’s even good enough with just two circles invested. A new r8 class that allows for use of one hand+sub weapon WILL make corsair a really great choice and depending on the new scaling for DWA it can even set it on the same level as QS and chaplain as an early pick and overall gameplay deciding class pick.

You are placing too much importance on the dagger skill which seems to work similarly to fencer’s flash skill (used 4 times in the gif, 3 hits each cast). You don’t need both that and pistol shot, and I’m sure even if you go clones+pistol you will have enough skills to spam for the duration of the clones even without the new dagger skill.

[Seiran]

A new r8 class that allows for use of one hand+sub weapon WILL make corsair a really great choice and depending on the new scaling for DWA it can even set it on the same level as QS and chaplain as an early pick and overall gameplay deciding class pick.

I agree it will make Corsair a better choice.

It just doesn’t change the factor that you need to transcend 3 weapons to use the class to the fullest while all other classes works well with 1-2 weapons.

People argument’s is that it feels wrong to be the only class that needs to transcend 3 weapons or ignore completely a skill while other classes doesn’t need it and that’s all.

Different opinions: Most corsairs thinks it’s a bad thing from experience.

[Kihseki]

I guess most hackapelles should be transcending pistols then so you could use all the skills to their fullest?

[Seiran]

I guess most hackapelles should be transcending pistols then so you could use all the skills to their fullest?

Hackapell C2 have more than enough skills with higher % than Corsair and the skill is bad - it’s not worth to pick nor force a “Single Target or AoE build” based only on that skill.

[Kihseki]

It’s not forcing you anything, you still have enough aoe and single target just taking corsair c2. Jolly Roger can pull mobs in its area of effect, you have low cooldown skills that have great hitboxes and decent damage, DWA has good potential when they add scaling, it’s already fairly decent with unlimited bless hitcount it just didn’t scale well with weapons. You even have a relatively OP CC that only requires you to stand still.

c3 just lets you wear a pistol and a really good AoE skill OR a potentially strong single target burst if combined with clones. The c3 skills don’t make or break corsair.

[Seiran]

It’s not forcing you anything, you still have enough aoe and single target just taking corsair c2.

It does forces you to pick just as you say, either way you’re losing one skill:

for pve you pick pistol shot for a really good aoe screen-clearing skill, while you go for the dagger skill if you want a single target clonable burst.

c3 just lets you wear a pistol and a really good AoE skill OR a potentially strong single target burst if combined with clones. The c3 skills don’t make or break corsair.

Totally agreed but there’s still no other class that have the same problem.

What’s the point of the rework if you need to abandon the only new skill that was added if you want to farm (which requires more AoE)?

We can simply agree to disagree. Most corsair thinks it’s bad, you think it’s good. No one is going to convince the other because both opinions are from experience.

I play on controller and I find it quite a nuisance to use DWA with it. That’s also an opinion - I want to avoid it as much as possible and having a new skill could allow me to focus on the dagger skill more than DWA. And nothing is going to change that it’s uncomfortable for me because it just is, no one is going to convince “no, it’s not uncomfortable, because it’s fine for me”.

[Kihseki]

It does forces you to pick just as you say, either way you’re losing one skill:

They add a new skill and suddenly you lost something.

This is what I disagree with basically but if you’re convinced you lost something when they just added a new choice then yea let’s just leave it at that.

[Seiran]

They add a new skill and suddenly you lost something.

This is what I’m disagree-ing with basically but if you’re convinced you lost something when they just added a new choice then yea let’s just leave it at that.

Because every other class got upgrades from the rework that works on most of their skills and there’s no limitation to pick the new/changed skills.

Why is it only like this with Corsair? - That’s what people complains. Every other class got a part of the cake.

[Kihseki]

You have expanded hitboxes on dust devil and hexen dropper and also weapon scaling on DWA. Not to mention shinobi clonable skills. I’m sure even you would give in to using DWA despite the button mashing if it had 200-300% weapon scaling (I’m placing it around there so that it’s competitive with aspersion and lightning hands skill factor, but there’s also crit rate to consider so even if it’s a little lower I think it’s alright).

At that point the complaint should be about DWA’s execution and not the actual skill’s damage output.

I think corsair got a fair bit of love already, but it all depends on DWA so yes if you hate the skill you might feel that corsair didn’t get much. It’s also not set in stone, because we don’t know the actual multiplier yet so if it ends up crap like 5% per level at the worst case going 150% at level 10 then yeah that’s going to be a problem.

[Seiran]

I’m sure even you would give in to using DWA despite the button mashing if it had 200-300% weapon scaling (I’m placing it around there so that it’s competitive with aspersion and lightning hands skill factor, but there’s also crit rate to consider so even if it’s a little lower I think it’s alright).

I agree. I would. Probably pressing C/Z on keyboard instead of controller.

But ultimately it doesn’t change that other classes didn’t get such a restriction. “Why only Corsair, why everyone else can use all their important skills with 1-2 weapons and Corsair needs 3?” - and nothing will change that for me.

[_Val_]

The way I see it is the ability to even have 3 weapons in that case, maybe they should make it so that you can only put skill points in either of the 2 c3 skills so you have to choose which weapon you specialize in.

at least then people wouldnt feel forced to pick 3 weapons but not sure if people just want to see this in a negative light no matter what (not that I don’t understand why)

[Kihseki]

If it makes you feel better though, doppel’s clonable skills are the ones with no c3 multihit attributes and the said skills with multihit attributes also got buffed. One with an additional OH and all of them with reduced CDs, so now shino dopps have to spread out their skill points even more. Also considering how the new multihit changes will also let zornhau go beyond damage cap per cast, Doppels have to make very real decisions on which skills to max out and stuff.

Pelt now has additional scaling with taunt levels as well, and going c3 has an attribute that doubles taunt generation. Dropping shino or hoplite for a pelt3 rod3 build is a very real decision now too. Murm’s c2 skills also got some adjustments, not sure though if those are enough to make people pick c2 since they’re mostly utility.

Varying skill distributions are being made viable for more classes, so I think it’s a good thing. Someday though I want to avoid having to take skills at level 1 just to use as fillers, because I really hate cluttered hotkeys.

[Jeyden]

Thay + shinobi isn’t viable ?c.c
I’ve tryed Thay for like 5 min before get totally disappointed by the class >.<

[benofficiale]

Next time try it with actual good gear before giving your opinion.

[SlyGoat]

Swordsman General Thread V3

Yeah it’s almost like a bunch of Swordsman classes have had serious ■■■■■■■ problems that are never addressed since forever.

for pve you pick pistol shot for a really good aoe screen-clearing skill,

really good aoe screen-clearing skill,

really good

Also, the difference between pistol and dagger will be another gameplay choice for DWA

DWA with a pistol attack so slow you actually do more DPS just using main hand attacks with high DEX

The only reason corsair is “weak” is because shino-murm is ridiculous.

Support Cleric does more DPS than Corsair, the class has 3 attacking skills total with long cooldowns and low scaling, and the utility skills that are supposed to make up for it are so forgotten about they basically don’t do anything anymore

sounds like greed to me tbh. You just want to use both pistol shot and that new dagger skill

“You’re greedy for wanting to use all your skills”

You’re right though, it’s obviously going to be a net buff to Corsair. It’s also going to destroy the thematic feel and roleplay fantasy of Corsair3 being a pirate that runs around with a melee weapon and a pistol. Because there will no longer be a reason to use the pistol. Pistol shot is a mediocre skill. Since the only significant buff looks like it’ll be to DWA, Corsair probably becomes a class you play for DWA. That + new dagger skill means you’re just going to use daggers, because Pistol Shot is absolutely not worth it on its own considering how fcking slow pistol attacks are with DWA. Depending on how DWA scales with levels there might not even be a reason to go C3 Corsair now since it’s just an awkward class rank and without it you can easily go Hoplite and Dragoon instead of having to use rapiers. Corsair has always been awkward with class choices if you want to actually use the class without having to ■■■■ around with lots of weapons wapping and the ridiculous cost of having multiple weapon sets in this game, and now they’re just making it worse.

If IMC wants to do some cute thing where Corsairs use daggers and pistols, and utilize daggers more in the game in general, why don’t they just give Corsair an attribute to use daggers in main hand at C1? Knowing IMC it would make Corsair completely unplayable garbage, but at least it wouldn’t be just plain stupid. Why this idiotic design where you have two different weapon requirements in the same weapon slot? TBH why not add a 2H bow skill to C3 Cannon and Pistol skill to C3 Musket so more people can experience the joy of Corsair’s great design. Let’s give clerics 2H sword skills that they need to somehow multi-class into Swordsman to use while we’re at it.

Sure, the option still exists to continue using pistol and pretending the changes never happened. By that logic, why ever balance anything? We can all just pretend the game is balanced instead!

P.S. Shinobi should be removed from the game because IMC is too incompetent to ever balance a class like that.

P.P.S. at least the update will give me 15 more useless skill points to spend on nothing since I can unlearn Dust Devil. It’s already so weak that basic attacks do almost as much damage over its slow as ■■■■ animation, no reason to use it at all with DWA. If only Corsair had some other abilities to invest in tho.

[Kihseki]

Support Cleric does more DPS than Corsair, the class has 3 attacking skills total with long cooldowns and low scaling, and the utility skills that are supposed to make up for it are so forgotten about they basically don’t do anything anymore

Right so you compare an entire build to one class good job.

You should be comparing it to fletcher, rogue, monk, chrono and sorc. Among these, the only one that stands out too much is sorc and that’s only because marnox is too good. The only reason you guys keep comparing corsair to entire class trees and higher rank classes is because there’s still no later class corsair can smoothly transition into.

Now look at the skills available to rank5-7 classes and think again if pistol shot is one of the better ones or not. Add in the other things corsair can do that I already mentioned and you have a decent class whose only problem is that matador is crap and there’s nothing else to pick for now. (You can pick dragoon 3 too but that class excels in its own skills only so obviously it doesn’t help corsair)

[SMoRuCho]

[SlyGoat]

Now look at the skills available to rank5-7 classes and think again if pistol shot is one of the better ones or not. Add in the other things corsair can do that I already mentioned and you have a decent class whose only problem is that matador is crap and there’s nothing else to pick for now. (You can pick dragoon 3 too but that class excels in its own skills only so obviously it doesn’t help corsair)

Pistol Shot is so bad I would trade it for Deadly Combo, then I wouldn’t have to upgrade a secondary weapon at all. Obviously I would take Pass or Frost Cloud (with physical scaling) in a heartbeat over Pistol Shot. Barrier? Sure, I’d finally have a real utility skill on my supposed utility class! Split Arrow? Absolutely far better than Pistol Shot even after it got gutted for no reason (more IMC incompetence that everyone said in advance would ruin the class; oh look, it did). The only classes that don’t have a C3 skill available that is obviously stronger than Pistol Shot are ones that have two full circles of good attack or utility skills to rely on, as opposed to the two (honestly just one, again Dust Devil is basically worse than normal attacks) attack skills Corsair gets before C3. I could invest only 15 of my 45 skill points in Corsair and would barely notice the difference.

Again it wouldn’t matter of Corsair actually had the utility it’s supposed to have, instead of a bunch of skills that literally don’t do anything. But of course IMC sees shitty classes and regardless of what the class’s role was they “solve” every problem now by just throwing more damage at it. Or just ignore it completely, like the complete lack of Alchemist changes in the Wizard rework (another class I thought was a cool concept until IMC ■■■■ all over it the way they do to everything )

Here’s been my collective expectation vs. reality on every class I thought was interesting looking in ToS since beta:

Squire: Wow I bet you can buff up your party’s equipment and be a unique support class that way

Reality: Oh actually you just sit in town with an idle shop open and literally nobody actually uses this class for anything

Rogue: Backstabbing stuff is pretty fun, I hope I get something cool when they release R7

Reality: LMAO they just moved Rogue’s most useless skill to C3 instead of adding anything

Scout: Archer class that focuses on defense and CC? Sounds pretty unique

Reality: What the ■■■■ fear literally doesn’t work and none of these other skills are worth wasting my time on either when I could just be spamming Split Arrow (don’t worry IMC fixed this later by making you not able to spam Split Arrow!)

Alchemist: Craft your own items by uncovering secret recipes and then defeat a unique item dungeon to awaken hidden stats in equipment? Wow that sounds amazing

Reality: Like squire, but even more ways to be AFK and never actually play this character or do any of those things!

Templar: Guild leader class that provides wide area buffs and battle tactics to your team, sounds great for the GVG that I’m sure will be a big part of the game!

Reality: LMAO WHAT A DISASTER

So yeah in the grand scheme of things, watching IMC ■■■■ up Corsair over a long period of time hasn’t really been the worst they’ve ■■■■■■ up a class, probably not even top 10. But it’s still the most impressive, because it seems really difficult to ■■■■ up “Pirate swordsman with a pistol” and they still pulled it off

[Kihseki]

That’s not a problem with pistol shot or impact dagger then but more of a problem of IMC itself so I don’t know why you needed the to make your point.

I also already explained that jolly roger can pull mobs, dust devil is a non-intrusive CC and you have that rope every swordie takes c1 for to be pvp viable so If those aren’t enough utility for you then yeah I understand why you also had that spasm over ice pillar and the other wiz changes.

ToS is a mess for class balancing, if you followed every expectation people have for their favorite classes then they’re going to have to do a lot of work and frankly you have to be delusional to think IMC can pull that off at this point. Still, I’m going to take what I can while I’m still playing and overall I can live with the teased changes in that developer blog post.

Imho, you should lower your expectations for IMC a little bit so you don’t get spasms over every change. Small positive changes like these are good if you set the bar a little lower.

P.S. I was only expecting wiz changes and there were some nice swordsman buffs too so IMC actually gave me a pleasant surprise. The pelt one has some nice character added to it though it’s also still for the sake of DPS. As for shinobi we still need to see if clones are “too good” but I still see it as a positive thing that shinobis can actually stay away from rodelero and murm now.

[naoehenrique]

Pistol Shot is not that bad of a skill with the splash attribute, but it’s not amazing at all.Well, yeah, regarding Corsairs (can’t talk about non-swordsman classes about balance since I almost never played the other 3) they don’t have the utility they’re supposed to have. I mean so much things doens’t make sense, I love this class but they’re so much “why” revolving around:

-Why Jolly Roger gives buffs only to Missile attacks when all other classes from SW tree is melee? And why it doesn’t have any use outside of aggroing mobs when you’re soloing?

-Why hook just stops 3 mobs when usually we’re fighting over 15? And why I can’t use Keel Hauling to damage when I have multiple hooks attribute ON? If it is for PvP Balance concerns make it maximum 3 targets when hooking players!

-Why is Pistol AAs so slow?

-Why Dagger Mastery attribute only works for when attacking from the back and only for AAs?

I’m sure there are many other classes in the other trees that are in the same (or worse) position as Corsairs right now, (like Alchemist since everyone is talking about it) but I don’t know the specifics. But all we can do it to post constructed feedback so it can be fixed later.