Tree of Savior Forum

kTOS General Thread v2.0

General Discussion
#6978

I never said it shouldn’t be able to do single target damage, don’t put words in my mouth or twist things I said. I said that it shouldn’t be that close or higher than pyromancer dps, Cryomancer focus isn’t damage, it’s a blue class known for crowd control.

6 out of 8 skills that Cryomancer can use has crowd control and utility.
1 out of 7 skills that Pyromancer can use has crowd control.

I suggest looking at https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#21333222 too.

But anyways, back to my original point: They nerfed overpowered combo’s (like fireball/link) because it completely trivialized content in the game. The same will happen to Cryomancer. If you think 100-0’ing bosses within seconds is okay… then I won’t get through to you.

Nothing is wrong with Cryo’s doing dps, it just shouldn’t be the same as a class that has 5x less utility.

Did you just assume I don’t play supports or utility classes? Trust me I know, I’ve leveled 12 characters to 330, half of them are non damage dealing classes. Doesn’t mean those classes should be overpowered lol.

1 Like
#6979

What’s the problem of long cooldown if another still can’t win even with shorter cooldown?

Yes its 2 worlds for Cryo, when another class only have 1 worlds.
It this the balance you want it?

2 Likes
#6980

^- The simple solution is right here. They already did this with Frost Pillar (2 frost pillars + ice blast only deals 1 line of damage), I don’t see why they can’t do it with Ice Walls.

No need for any damage adjustments or whatever, just fix the broken combo.

#6981

Ok so let’s put numbers to it, let’s see if i can show you it’s not so overpowered as you seem to believe.

On the video, last ice blast + ice wall combo dmg visible was 9210 on 1 hit.
Taking into account it’s 3 overheat in 16 icewalls, it has the potential to deal 442.080 damage WITH RUNE OF ICE (which means it’s not cryo alone). Taking into account rune of ice increases final damage by 150%, this means the cryomancer rank3 is able to do 176.832 damage on a 60 second cooldown. Which is only gonna be single target if the boss is alone, if the enemies are togheter it’s gonna spread between them. remember this is not AoE damage, but Flat / amount of enemies (depending on tehir proximity to the walls).

Now again, people on ktest have lvl 170 weapons with 270/315 Stats as i’ve seen. Also, comparing damage to also updated classes

Now look at this dragoon for example, with gear similar to enemy level, check how much time it takes for him to do 176k damage, on skills which can do AOE damage. post 17 april.

or this doppel:

Taking into account they are facing higher level monsters with higher DEF and MDEF with gear which is actually of their level, compared to the 172 show off cryo + rc who is having high tier ktest which is over level 170.

I do not believe this combo is op. It’s not 100-0, more like 90-0, and only because it’s rune caster, not cryomancer itself. Cryos would be doing 30-40% max HP maximum.

I really believe you are overrating the damage simply because it’s fast burst and you can’t clearly see the numbers.

Now this is a high con high str doppel from 18 april:

This is why i don’t think the combo is so overpowered and i think you are “overestimating” it’s actual damage.

Yes cryo gives “supportive skills too” but i do not believe having 1 burst combo and nothing else related to offense, and this combo only being fine dps wise if combined with rune caster is a problem. And yes, I do not like 100-0 like 2 fireball + link we have, on a 21 second cooldown. But I don’t think ice wall + ice blast is that much of a 100-0, and even so, it’s not comparable in my opinion.

I also know this lacks more numbers and ■■■■ cause the cyro doesn’t show MATK, but i would believe it’s around full int and 1500-1700 MATK aproximetly, taking into account other wiz videos.

#6982

Do you honestly believe that the only offensive skills Cryomancer has is the Icewall combo? hmm :thinking:

Thanks for proving my point that this combo is very overpowered and needs to be nerfed, and most likely will. Let’s hope that IMC does what is right.

Really though, there’s more than 3-4 circles in the game, you are linking swordsmen builds that are using several skills from more than just Dragoon or Doppel, you don’t see those classes doing 90% of a bosses hp in less than 10 seconds. So what do you want? Cryomancer to be a mob destroyer, boss destroyer and king of crowd control? Ahhhh I see, thankfully you’re not in charge of balancing this game. :wink:

But hey, if they don’t then it’s all good, my two first most invested characters are Wizards, I’ll probably just go with a build like this and be crystal maiden: https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#21333bbbh.253555.12233f4f7585.1f3f7a85.152545

#6983

I see you totally haven’t noticed my point which is, cryomancer is never gonna a DPS class comparable to any other in the game only because of this interaction. Without this interaction Cryomancer is only a goddamn “support slave” as it is right now.

I’m not even gonna try to convince you anymore. Once changes go live I hope I can prove you wrong.

Also, notice 30-40% HP of that mob is 170k, which I will dare to say, is nothing at all.

5 Likes
#6984

Do someone knows arround how much % of crit you can get on a cleric build at high level with high stuff?
(I know the formula is more complex than this technically but it’s just an approximative % that i’d like to know ^^)

#6985

Right now monstrance gives +30% dex, but dex is not gonna give critical anymore. The other way to get % crit is going druid animal transformation (+50%). If druid 3 with hengestone you should get +100% critical rate. Going druid3 limits a lot of your melee dps classes though and i have no idea if druid2 is gonna give enough crit rate to then follow up with inquisitor.

1 Like
#6986

Lol.
Gust 10 = 358.6%, Hits 2 - 3 times. so 717.2 %or 1075.8% Has 3 overheat so 2151.6% - 3227.4% Every 20 seconds…
Knocks back.

Vs
Fire Pillar 10 = 100.7% * 28 hits 2819.6% Every 95 Seconds. Disables Enemy.
Gust is far better DPS you need to be hitting a lot of targets to level out the difference.

Fireball 15 = 992% considering overheat. Hits about 3 targets… Fireball:Burn deals some damage as well.

Ice Bolt 15 = 1123.2% considering overheats. Freezes enemies…

Ice Blast has slightly higher damage than Flare, but the condition needs to be maintained more, excusing Frost Pillar and Ice Wall.

Ice Pike also deals more damage than Flame Ground unless you hit a good amount of targets, and Flame Ground doesnt hit flying.

Hell Breath deals a lot more damage than Snow Rolling.

Their two side piece utility skills are Enchant Fire and Sub Zero Shield respectively.
Enchant Fire boosts damage quite a bit and is good with multi-hit skills.

The fact that they are this comparable in damage is what is actually funny before we consider Ice Blast + Ice Wall.

Enchanter can provide Enchant Fire 5, eventually 10 come rank 9 at the end of this year.
ATM unless you’ve got Blessing support. Just makes more sense to pick Cryomancer even without Rune of Ice.

Excusing Enchanter’s though.
Basically Enchant Fire on 5 party members vs Ice Blast + Ice Wall.

#6987

Taking into account new blessing, new enchant fire and new enchant lightning, all multihits are gonna be pretty strong. The reason i talked about ice wall + ice blast combo, and needing 30 skill points for it, is to counter what you are saying right now, gust, ice pike, and ice bolt have good damage, but if you rely on the combo you cannot get them taking into account you are gonna invest 10 more points in Tree + snow rolling.

This combo means you have to give up on the other cryo possible DPS skills.

1 Like
#6988

While Pyro has more skills to use points on. I bet you could ditch EF and go for all multihits and then get enchanter, or put few points in multihits and then max EF for extra fire property attack.

1 Like
#6989

Not Specifically.
Sub Zero, and Frost Pillar aren’t really DPS applicable, they’re taken for utility.
We’re talking comparable DPS skills, a stronger burst option with all but two of these skills applying Crowd Control.
The Trade off is rather moot unless someone is specializing in Sub Zero Shield, Frost Pillar and Snow rolling as to subtract from all their damage.

The combination of Damage + Utility at the moment makes Cryomancer an obvious pick over Pyromancer until or unless IMC takes a look at the numbers and decide one of these classes needs to rise or fall.

#6990

Welp, then add lvl 15 ice pike if you want with 3 overheat on top the combo, but realistacally speaking, noone is gonna give up on tree + snow rolling.

Take into account tooltip on ice pike says it is x6, but unless it’s a boss monster with circling, no target takes actually 6 pike hits, it’s linear, the most you cna pul off with good lining up is 3 hits on large monsters. 2 hits in M and S size is the come thing.

I do belive too that pyromancer needs some more damage, it got destroyed, i bet they overdid for agny. Also count that all pyro skill can get +50% MATK from agny per hit, which would actually add a lot more damage for pillar, flame ground and wall i believe. I don’t think there are any videos on new pyro with and without agny.

#6991

Well i wasn’t asking for a buff itselfx)
I wanted to know how much % of crit rate you have arround when you fight (with great stuff against high tier ennemies)
Exempel if you crit 1/5 most of the time = you’re arround 20% chance to crit. (Smt like that XD)

#6992

oh then no idea, haven’t played ktest heuhue. But these info should also guide you to how to try to get the highest crit possible based on whatever crit chance base on crit rate we see in the future.

#6993

Yep i’m just trying to get the exact factor % where spr blessing builds falls behind str/dex builds x) that’s all :stuck_out_tongue:

#6994

Utility pretty much ends on boss tier things though id love if they had the ability to slow or interrupt bosses i dont have rc or psy in my build so outside of gusting the ice wall the ice blast combo is pretty much it for dealing decent damage where the cc has no use

#6995

In a 40s boss fight or even a 1 minute Boss Fight. Cryo does nigh the same and at times significantly more damage than Pyro at the current state of Ktest.
The exception to this is Blessing.
Blessing is so potent you just throw it on ■■■■ and let it do its magic.
Blessing is also why Flare is still garbage despite otherwise being in proportion to other Pyro Skills.

#6996

Just want to let you know blue class is irrelevant. Paladin, Quarrel Shooter, need I remind you of pelt-rod-murm. Actually, this is a very similar situation to it.
It is a trend. Every class (Swordmen, Wizard, Archer, Cleric) has blue colored icons, and in some way or form (proper rank combinations/skills) can be made to out damage red icon ranks.

Mind you they have cc as well.

2 Likes
#6997

Looking for dmg formula… someone help.
for both crit and non crit