ah i just realized i was talking to the guy who says we dont have tanks
i knew this conversation was reminding me of someone
also no pure con max buff tank is holding C
or they are challenged
Show me where I am remotely wrong.
I play Doppel, the main areas of where Pel comes in?
Field grinding (not because weâre going to die, but to pull), and ET (not because itâs a necessity, but as another method of crowd control).
Youâre a Squire C3, literally only useful from a boss perspective for Arrest.
Wow.
i am not saying you are wrong i am saying that this setup IMC has is wrong and needs an overhaul
because why scream variety and then force everyone to be 1 thing? not even a fun thing but a weird messed up frankenbuild just to be viable
and then afterwards
kill the 2 most played tank builds 
keep beatin that dead horse imc
Can anyone tell the stats of CROW TIT and what is its special buff?
What is better for S3>CATA3>Dragoon1>Lancer1, Penguin or Tit?
Itâs only wrong if they force a Trinity of Tank/DPS/Healer.
But thatâs not what we have enforced, and itâs not a problem that we donât since Peltasta is literally the only class with a dedicated aggro skill, you cannot at any point make it required for content.
So tanks are put into the âeh, maybe?â roll of a party from the get-go which is why its usually grab a Swashbuckling bot for grinding, and then get rid of them for anything that matters if youâre min-maxing.
They made Peltasta better at defense which is what its supposed to excel at in the first place. This isnât killing anything.
It makes taking Guardian just for evasion more punitive for the purpose of dealing damage, but when you have a 6x Aggro boost in the first place, you basically look at things and say âAll I have to do to be effective here is deal at least 1/6th of this persons damageâ.
Simultaneously for IMC this also means âAll we need to ensure to make sure this build can still take Aggro is make sure its damage potential is at slightly higher than 1/6th of DPS classes at bare minimumâ.
This is easy to adjust (for instance weâre literally looking at Attack Compossee getting a damage buff in this patch). There are a lot of damage buffs in this patch alone.
The ones left out? Squire, because again. This class doesnât really bring value as a party member in its current iteration, which says more about it, then it does about any Peltasta change. Squire has no damage skills, its shops donât require it in a party to get your equipment boosted, and its food buffs will remain after you boot it from the party.
It also has some lame duck âif you die, heres less penaltyâ C3 skill.
Squire has its own problems, making Peltasta good at its theme isnât anything for IMC to feel bad about.
This is, IMO, the main attraction of evasion-based tank. While damage-mitigation based tank dealing next to no damage due to PB being on cooldown, holding C, or jumping away, evasion-based tank can keep spamming skills (that for sure, dealing much more than even full-strâs auto attack damage).
Since weâre talking bout fencer, pretty sure fencerâs aggression attribute contributes a substantial amount of damage
edit : I guess I clicked wrong reply button. Sorry
Yes but I was comparing it to a non evasion based tank, thus the points I make.
All said and done, the current cap/skill balance does not favor DEX based tank. The allure of dealing damage for an extra second whereas another tank would have to jump away, is not very useful with content right now.
Maybe when Fencer C3 comes around, weâll see some solid numbers and theyâll be better. But not right now, and not with the upcoming changes.
Can anyone tell the stats of CROW TIT and what is its special buff?
What is better for S3>CATA3>Dragoon1>Lancer1, Penguin or Tit?
The CrowTit Companion has a HP/SP Recovery Buff when accompanying a player. I donât really know anything about swordsman to give advice though.
(stats)
2 Likes
This seems primarily class reliant then I guess since weâre two completely different class paths. Idk your full class path but I would imagine if you ended with dragoon the 2h spear attribute big game hunter would be quite a significant boost in dps if you could tank while using that.
Either way, if it comes down to only one viable class path for tanking for swordsman which is what it seems like weâre getting at thatâs also bad design
I could but another thing thatâs worth noting is with these comparisons I went from my current stats invested in str to every point being invested in str. This means I did not take any points in CON in to consideration, which should be a somewhat significant difference in damage but donât know a proper amount of CON to have with this kind of set up so donât want to make another comparison
Around 37 CON for 20k natural HP (which can be boosted to 30k with hats/awakening/plate armor), and then boosted further via squire food for any ET content, and eventually Transcendancy.
Thatâs my current stat spread for a majority STR based tank.
Oh so thatâs pretty much what I have now then, so not too much of a difference in damage from str loss
It will progressively become higher and higher, because with the crit rate from DEX scaling poorly with level, and STR getting more bonus points with more invested (and 10% more per rank as opposed to nothing for DEX), it will get more and more noticeable, especially as the level cap goes up.
Thanks alot, so penguin is still better hehe
how about lesser panda and guinea pig? any info in their stats and special buff?
A tanks main role is always 1) Get aggro
2) Survive
- almost always in all games means doing damage and then the games threat bonuses make it worth more than DPS threat generation.
So in a balanced game your damage expectations of a tank are relative to the damage expecations of the DPS.
If you expect tanks average threat to be 10x their average dps for instance, than you know DPS threat generation canât exceed 10* tanks average dps, and vise versa.
You can give DPS tools to lower their threat, or give tanks more damage to increase their threat output among other things.
Making Guardian do its job correctly as trading meaningful offense for meaningful defense is not a problem, itâs not bad design, it is how the skill should work in a game that has now decided it wants skills to not fall off.
and when there is only 1 single skill that helps do the 1st job you have to choose one and sacrifice the other
which is the problem
this is the single mmo i have played in 100s of mmos that is designed like this
if i wanted to play dps i would have picked a dps
2 Likes
Except right now they give the exact opposite of this.
Tho then again if guardian increases both Phys Atk and Phys Def, itâll kill off every other rank 2 classes.
Pretty sure the source of all this hate to guardian change is the -% Atk, which is totally counterproductive.
Not really.
Again.
All the devs are required to do to allow people to tank is keep DPS proportionate (based on provoke) to 1/6th +1 of DPS of of dedicated dps classes. Naturally thatâs not a practical margin of error so you have player DPS even higher then 1/6th +1.
For a Squire, since they donât have attack skills, they have to hope that the threat generation of ranks 1-4, are still = to more than 1/6th of the damage output of dedicated dps.
No ones telling you to be a DPS. Only that doing damage is still part of the tanking requirement. Not just holding C and swashbuckling for instance, but you went a route with no damage, so for the current situation of Squire C3, this means killing things while theyâre under Swashbucklings effect instead of relying on Provoke. This is reasonable for field grinding but not bosses.
@AEttir not if that damage is supposed to come from skills. What it really means is that by taking this skill on you will not be as potent as dedicated damage dealers which is again fairly typical. Trading offense for defense, and the lost offense is made up from a threat generation perspective by the high threat modifier(s).
This again isnât a problem for most possibilities after Pel C1/C2 or C3. But Squire had Zero damage skills. So itâs lacking damage contribution from level 127 to level 280âŚ
You might get away with this as a Highlander C3 - Squire, going for bosses (especially with Vertical being improved), but as a Pel C3 tough luck.