WOW! are those numbers are real? 438 hp at level 1? that would be freaking big when they level up… oh, i though lesser panda gives crit attack and crit rate bonus. 
Well this is apparently easier to say and suggest then for them to actually implement it
Would be nice!
LOL yea removing the pelt entirely would be a good idea
who needs taunt right
at this point why even bother
i could even argue that being a quarrel shooter and using your shields to replace taunt while being a single target king for bosses is basically better with your logic
but we all know the true tank is cryo linker
they have pull and cc and hp and dps
Not really?
The game is again constantly updating.
Look at Giant Swings damage increase in this patch for instance.
Concentrates changes from two weeks prior.
Vertical slash changes.
Short term thinking brings short term results.
Damage is going up, but a general modifier against damage while increasing defense means “You are not going to be defensively potent and equal the DPS of dedicated damage dealers”. Which is fine because the threat generation of Provoke means you don’t need to deal the damage of dedicated dps to hold aggro. They just have to make sure your base damage output is appropriate, and then when you don’t need to be a defensive titan, you take off your defensive stance (guardian/High Guard) and deal damage.
The balance of this game is going to be considerably different by the end of the year, we all know that.
Problem is having to pay out the nose everytime to adjust to skill changes when it would otherwise be free in most self respecting games for changes of this magnitude.
You can’t completely wig out everything they make a long term move.
2 Likes
Giant swing is a conceptually bad skill (but that’s just picking out one)
I did the comparisons for vertical slash here:
Concentrate is additional damage, not phys damage. It seems like in the damage formula it just gets straight up added to the end and multiplied by nothing (and if we’re talking about tanking we shouldn’t even consider concentrate because a good one will require going sword 3)
Additive skill damage scaling really won’t help with overall DPS much
And for the attaque composee buff it gets pretty much nullified by the guardian change
I really hope so but I have my doubts sorry. Its been far too long. I really hope I’m wrong because swordsman is the only class I enjoy playing but oh well
The noted skills aren’t to make you think “oh well this solves everything” they’re supporting evidence of a general trend to increase damage output to be in line with certain expectations.
The balance of the game is already fairly different from how it was in January for instance or last year late December.
Since we know the balance is going to change (hell Rank 8 in August alone is going to change things up significantly) I know a lot more people are going to be frustrated.
Again if my damage output (on a basic level) is 100% of yours.
Then I flip on guardian and I’m at 85% of yours, but I am defensively stronger, this isn’t an issue because with a 6x bonus, I’m dealing 510% threat to your 100%. Guardians design works just fine for trading offense and defense. It’s a long term change, but creates short term considerations.
Let’s single out Pelt3 Squire3 build since its definitely a special case. Even for Pelt1 + 5 DPS class ranks, its still possible for fully dedicated DPS char cough archers and wizards cough to steal the aggro. And thats while spamming skills instead of hold-C afk.
Once again, the hate is on the percentage based Phys Atk reduction. They could increase guardian’s tanking viability by numerous ways, yet they chose “lol lets make it % based lol”.
1 Like
I’ve yet to see anyone really steal aggro once I start with Pouncing especially post patch unless they use Swashbuckling and then I get it back except on Trash mobs, because trash mobs die before Swashbuckling finishes.
If I’m dealing 6k per hit for example, in the background because of provoke that’s actually 36,000 per hit in Aggro generation. I don’t know what Ele is dropping 36,000 damage ticks of Frost Cloud.
Similar deal with Rush, Cyclone, Stabbing.
If your damage output is less than 1/6th of someone elses on a DPS class, this isn’t a reason for you to go “ah chit guardian % buffs, my Aggro!”.
You’re supposed to stop and wonder “How am I losing Aggro, with 500% additional threat generation, on every single attack I make. In the current environment”.
And come to the conclusion that
a) You’re playing poorly
b) Your class is having major damage concerns.
c) Both.
d) The class stealing aggro is actually overpowered and requires a nerf.
A reduction of 14%+ shouldn’t be crippling you (depending on where it applies I suppose) with a 500% threat generation when it comes to holding Hate.
2 Likes
man wth… link o never happend…
theres more to it than just flat damage
long cds mostly
this is why wugus and qs 3s and dopples are annoying
36000 is easy to pass
they spam like crazy in your downtimes
heck
a rogue sapper can do 400k+ damage in 15 seconds
i have to deal with having the aggro all the time
like i said the problem is also there in reverse
36,000 per tick of Pouncing (it hits about 3x per second, then going into Cleave, Cyclone, Seism, Carter Strike, Helm Choppers, and AA’s with 2-3k physical attack due to Deeds with increased ASPD.
As a Pel C3, all you have to do is spam Swashbuckling like a bot on trash mobs.
For those without we just do damage and know that with a 6x bonus it’ll workout on bosses.
Taking Ele3 might not be the best example as they don’t specialize in melting single target. Then again I was the first one to brought up wizards, my bad. How bout fletchers with their click-and-forget magic arrow? Definitely agree that currently Pouncing deals some nice damage, but it has some nice cooldown as well. Whether we can maintain the aggro outside Pouncing against something like magic arrow with its 5s cooldown is another question.
While I agree that -14% Phys Atk probably won’t cripple our aggro generation, it definitely would affect it negatively, which is once again, completely unnecessary.
for some reason i still dont think thats an issue
we havent even seen archer rank 8 yet
well, i’m all for the bad buff on guardian, since my main tank is a con-dex- fencer, and i have 0 str, so you can say that my damage is way lower than most str or even str-dex builds, but at least i won’t receive a huge loss of damage.
on this talk about tanking bosses i would like to tip in that i never had a boss taken away for me(with a con-dex build), of course sometimes a boss would change target for one sec because i’m kitting around to avoid damage, but once i come back to my dps cycle they will always come back to atk me, and this takes less than one sec for happen.
NOW for me the real problem here is not the classes, is simply the number of limits we have to choose from (only 6 ranks), because if we can agree or not, there is builds out there that simply do not have viability right now, be it a tanker build or a damage build and most of those builds involves classes like: squire:corsair((mainly about the new complains about rank 8 and so on) in the swordsman three.
Because those classes are more focused on utility so once we have someone take those classes as expecting to act pure as tank or as DPS, they will fail, because there is “Only 6 ranks” to choose from, but once we go high in the levels and more ranks shows up builds with squires and corsair(mainly about the new complains about rank 8 and so on) will be viable, simple as that, at least i believe so.
ON a END note: everyone here on the forum even the players who is more on the wiz-archer fanclub never said that they had done more than 2x-3x the damage of sword and this is true , and provoke allows us to have 6x less damage than them, so if anyone is not doing damage enough to cover up the aggro they have the wrong build, HP is not everything for god sake we have tanks going up to 50-60k HP and this is way more than you need even if ET, 30 at max 40k is already more than enough because it will grow even more with swash for example that is a 100%uptime buff also you are suppose to have have a good supp to back you up and because of that 50-60k is way more than enough for the current content.
if you all want to be a true tank you would also need damage and this is the true, so complains because you “need” to do damage to be tank is a fail logic to start, every game there is a need to do damage and if you are not doing it is simply because you choose to go pure con path and this is wrong.
IMCisGreedy: i know that most people here call you a troll on the topics you create but deep down i know that most of your complains in the topics you make is right in some way , but i must say that his one simply does not: i know that you have a petal3squire3 tank, but in the end of it, you do not choose the true tank path, to be tank you also need to do damage and this is why petal rank is so early on the three (ranks2-3-4) so we can add damage with builds later on but in the end you choose to be squire, and because of that you lost the ability to do damage by being utility and this of course would make you fail as tank in later game content because you would not be able to generate aggro enough but like i said at the start of my post this would resolve itself once we have more ranks to choose from, the problem is only the “Limit” of 6 ranks to choose from, this makes builds with utility(corsair for damage and squire for tanks) fails on later on very hard, because they are after all utility.
That’s…a lot of damage
How? I do 6k/tick (9k on cloth) with lv 50 attribute
It’s a fairly standard change for defensive skills in MMO’s.
Guardian already lowered attack, its just its Defense and Attack values were both negligible outside of level 40-81 basically.
Since Guardian isn’t a short term defensive cooldown but a long one and it’s now been changed to a somewhat respectable defensive boon it lowering damage output is fine.
After Pouncing I use Cleave into Cyclone/Seism. Mind you I’m a Doppel. Taking aggro just because I can and it’s not a problem for me for most bosses so long as I know their attack patterns. No ones going to deal 6x my damage output, bar aoe situations.
Pels have the benefit of not relying solely on Provoke since Swashbuckling forces Hate.
For every other situation its “Does my class literally get out damaged by 6x?” and then trying to get that resolved. Though Dragoons may not care with their party debuffs in Gae bulg and C2 Serpentine.
You just said it, we’re talking about the value of threat you’re generating.
you’re 6k * 6 threat generation of Provoke.
Thats 36,000 threat being generated with every swing tick of your Pouncing.
Which means people have to be doing 36,000 damage at the same speed to equal the threat generation of your Pouncing under Provoke, which isn’t realistic.
Hence “I don’t have Threat issues, I open up with Pain barrier and pouncing”.
That’s the whole deal with Provoke.
Take your damage output, crank it up by 6*, that’s how much damage they have to do to overtake your threat.
If they beat that out, there’s a problem.
Cataphracts will have Rush for something Similar, and Earth wave instead of Seism for instance.
Stabbing from Hoplite is good as well.
The 2x hits from Flacconade/Attack Composse, a lot of threat gets generated by Swordsmen, with a lot of different paths.
The goal is that our dps shouldn’t be 1/6th of someone elses.
he is a highlander/fencer so guardian nerf + they just got our skyliner nerf …double punch in the nuts
1 Like
it might have been still possible for a squire 3 pelt 3 before this nerf
but now its literally worthless
Not really their damage is pretty balls and we both know it.
Just spam Swashbuckling to force Control.
Overfocusing on Guardian is kind of pointless. Squire isn’t very good in parties at the moment. Grab one takes its food, tell him to get lost.