Tree of Savior Forum

kTOS General Thread (keep all in-game discussion here)

General Discussion
#6080

[quote=“Loztchild, post:6073, topic:125464”]
Not happening sorry :kissing_heart:

Let’s Nerf everything LOL

HasteRushSleepHangman’s KnotMeteorSnipeStatue of Goddess AusrineMackangdalRevenged Sevenfold… and more
[/quote] Let me just be condescending, then list a bunch of skills irrelevant to the conversation that I think are strong. [quote=“Loztchild, post:6073, topic:125464”]
Block can be countered by block penetration and Iron Stone was already nerf
[/quote][quote=“Loztchild, post:6073, topic:125464”]
They just need to buff Swordman not nerf wiz,clerics and archers.IMC just need to introduce more block penetration gear and you need to stack SPR to get that penetration high enough.No need to nerf anything about Clerics yet.[/quote]

Then let me not read the calculations being discussed that showed no matter how much SPR and penetration you stacked currently it would be impossible to counter in a meaningful way. Then let me say how it’s not the skill that needs to be changed, but the other classes issues that makes it so stone skin is so troublesome. Lastly the fix to stone skin, that I apparently don’t think is even an issue is new gear that doesn’t even exist.

6/10 Post, it made me reply, not worry, and also relax.

#6081

Moving on…:grinning:

#6082

Hmm, I’ve read in one of the forum topics it only grants about 180 block rate. Where did you get the info about quadrupling block rate? But anywaym peltasta is separate case.

Also I don’t know about peltasta top achieved block rate (any screenshots/proofs?), having a skill that grants you the same block rate as fully guarded peltasta while not preventing you from attacking is ridiculous.

All the skills you listed have lots of countering mechanics (and most of them are not even OP from the start).

The sword you mentioned is nice ofc, the only problem is that you won’t hit even once to deal this bonus antiblock damage, since 200 is so ridiculously small comparing to 1500.

I personally love clerics and their design and I’m going to raise 1 or 2, here I’m talking only about Stone Skin numbers. I wonder why you even think this is adequate?

By your words we should give snipe 1200% scaling and penetrating through everything while saying: you can counter it by killing him when it is on cd. If something is present in the game it doesn’t mean it should be here. Unhealthy mechanics like this never should be left untouched. I don’t know what is the exact formula (that’s why I used Eva/acc formula), but it’s obvious that no matter how block chance is calculated, such block rate is incomparably higher than all the block penetration you can get.

I don’t suggest removing this skill or changing it. It is really nice skill, but with broken numbers. Simply ajusting numbers to a reasonable level (even 1.5xSPR would be OK) will make it much better. For sure it’s not the only skill that needs balancing but in my opinion it is the most outstanding right now, and I think it’s one of the main reasons why PvP is so unbalanced currently. Nerfing it won’t solve the whole problem, but it will help a lot.

And yeah, I am “raging” about this builds simply because I wan’t to make a cleric my second character and I want to plan it after the nerfs, not before. Right now I’m FORCED to get this skill if I don’t want to be inferior to other clerics. In current state it’s simply a must have investment: use 1 class slot and fight 5 vs 3. After using it simply ignore enemy archers and swordies while you ganging their mages with the whole team.

#6083

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Block Rate and Guard(C) Discussion
#6084

And what are the numbers w/o C? Also can you pls tell, what shield you are using etc. It seems that there are no accurate data on blocking yet.

#6085

Cleric in this game really perfect isn’t it ?
They can support, they can deal good dps and they are tanky af - all at the same time.
I’ve seen all other 3 classes qqing but cleric never once.

2 Likes
#6086

reminds me of aions clerics, ahahaha

#6087

That happens in a lot of games. X) Mostly with Paladins actually. Because they are tanky, can heal…and in addition they get enough dps too…

No, I think you didn’t understand. It would be a damage reduction not total immunity as it almost is now…and of course it would need the right balance…As I see… or for my taste it would be much better for multiply reasons…but I’m lazy to write it down. Maybe I’ll make a topic about it one last time…sometime…

#6088

I guess it depends on what you mean by qqing. There are plenty of issues with cleric that I would like to see fixed.

I think the main ‘QQ’ that clerics have is that Sadhu went from a really good option to forgettable in a couple patches. Also while Chaplain is super good, Magnus Exorcismus is a really questionable in its utility.

Also we can’t break the damage cap like certain classes :wink:

1 Like
#6089

Yeah, I think I understood. I just mean that magic damage is usually much lower then physical and scales worthe in late game. And making it blockable will result in drastic DPS drops. I think much better variant would be completely different way of protection against magic skills, like short durational magic defense buffs etc. Maybe swordsman c2-c3 and/or Rodelero can have an ability to counter mages in some way to make them more viable.

Also ajusting skill animations to be faster and smoother, without unnecesary moves will help swordsmen a lot. Or at least add some intended animation cancelling (like in most mobas). Classes like Rodelero/Fencer are considered weak mostly because their clumsy animations which are easily dodgeable.

If we add dot that deals 1 damage million times in a second, it won’t be a damage cap break technically)

But jokes aside, most of cleric and mage classes feel themselves perfectly fine. And yet I agree that some classes (like Sadhu) need buffs, but even more classes need at least slight nerfs in order to avoid onesided wins as much as possible. I think that all classes but swordsmen are already great in PvP, and swordsmen tanks are essential as well, but there are too few good choices for PvE swordsmen build (either 2H Doppel/Dragoon or full tank peltasta+squire).

And in PvP they currently suck even more.

#6090

EDIT: Now on top of that my client is crashing after the intro movie ( Nexon/IMC logo)… I wanna play so badly but I don’t know what I am supposed to do.
==-------------------------------
Do you guys know how to fix this?

I can’t see what is beeing downloaded and it kind of annoys me, sometimes I can’t even see the %. Anyone with the same problem and/or know a fix for this?

#6091

As a Chaplain i find stoneskin is little bit OP if reach %80+ block rate easily. Flat bonus can be removed and 3x SPR is enough (this makes the skill is shine on late game, but if there is imba block pen items 4x need) since i need to invest all my stat points on SPR to get just two skill strong (zalcaia and stoneskin) this is acceptable.

Also lets make Stoneskin is source from priest; if priest die buff is removed from whole party (full SPR priest can die easly with magic dps and magic dps focus on killing priests makes fights more strategy based)

Bloodletting is little bit OP too… i wanna get kabbalist for ein sof but blootletting is a must skill for pvp if its stay like this.

Lets make Bloodletting 15sec duration and 20sec cd… there is 5sec for CC and nuke. (10sec duration and 15sec cd is to much i think; this time kabbalist’s ein sof must)

Abouth buff dispeller class; it must be single target and long cd. imagine your party using 2min cd immunity buff and there is a class dispell the buff ur whole party and its just 20 sec cd… painfull for buffer classes… if its like that i will delete my chaplain and rolling a buff dispeller class :slightly_smiling: and if there is a one kind of this class its must be a mage or cleric with utility skills not with dps skills and Circle2 need for dispell

And nerfing priest buffs just in pvp is like a joke for me… U want my buffs %100 strong for buffing u in pve and give me %40-50 potantial in pvp? im not a slave i wanna enjoy in both side… then lets nerf dps classes %50 in pvp too…

Sorry for my Engurius language :slightly_smiling:

#6092

It is pretty obvious that PD will be nerfed in some way, either directly or indirectly.

Bloodletting should not be party-wide, 1st of all. Or keep it party-wide but have it removed after it is triggered once. I am fine with Beak Mask lasting for full duration since it is self-only.

Another idea would be to make it so targets under bloodletting can’t be healed, so you put some risk/reward to the skill and the opposing group would have to switch from CC to pure damage when the skill is in effect.

1 Like
#6093
  1. I doubt there will be so OP block pen items, because they will make any other block based characters useless.

2)If priest dies buff is not removed. Also it’s hard to kill even full SPR priest since it has lots of heal etc. And most priests will go like 1: 4 CON SRP(or rely on other ways to survive), which will make them quite fat and it will not affect stone skin power too much.

3)Lots of other Cleric classes have SPR scaling, so it’s not just 2 skills.

  1. Agree about Bloodletting, too strong right now. Still not sure what is the right way to balance it, simply adding 5 second gap is not enough I think. And you can share beak mask through Link, so it won’t even solve the problem. Ein Sof is also very powerful, and it will help those almost full SPR priests to be even more unkillable.

5)Makinf dispeller class is a bad idea, since it will simply become new stone skin priest due to countering lots of builds in a game. Maybe an ability like “cancels the last spell cast by enemy nearby” with ~30 seconds cd will work just fine, this way you will be able to cover your strong buffs with weaker abilities cast immediately after. This class should be a sworide, like Magic Hunter or so. Mages have too much utility already.

6)Adjusting abilities for PvP and PvE is reasonable thing. Lots of abilities are OK in PvE but become OP in PvP (like Revive, Stone Skin etc.). And DPS is not too high in PvP even now. Enjoying PvP doesn’t mean you should become immune to enemy damage, it means that you are comparably strong to your enemy. But at the same time some abilities that don’t work in PvP should (maybe) be given at least some effects in order to make every class comparably viable in PvP.

But personally I like the idea of some classes being better in PvP and some in PvE. But I think, that every class should be in top or second tier at least in PvP or PvE, or have any unique use (like crafter classes). If it is bad elsewhere, something is wrong with game balance.

#6094

  1. i mean lets make the skill is removed if priest die (kind of nerf) i know right now its not removed when priest die. And u cant get c3 cleric’s 15 tile heal this mean heal is not that huge. i think you simple want nerfing to ground stoneskin and no heal for priest lets pew pew kill all?

  2. U cant get all scalling skills (cleric>priest3>chap>krivis>PD =7) stoneskin and zalciai

  3. To give hunters or other dps classes dispell buffs is bad idea since hunters can steal magic circles +dispell? if dispell skill is in circle2 class and not dps or dps buff utility skills on this class, hunter can get this no problem.

But no dispell class is better i agree

  1. Revive already nerfed and skill is ok. Stoneskin is can little bit nerfing to. But i dont agree too much nerf for priest on pvp and stay %100 potantial on pve. Both side nerf or not.

There is only 2 skill need nerf: [quote=“senemcem85, post:6091, topic:125464”]
Also lets make Stoneskin is source from priest; if priest die buff is removed from whole party (full SPR priest can die easly with magic dps and magic dps focus on killing priests makes fights more strategy based)
[/quote]

More than this is overkill… Specialy Stoneskin; only reason spending all my stat points to SPR…

Edit: [quote=“senemcem85, post:6091, topic:125464”]
As a Chaplain i find stoneskin is little bit OP if reach %80+ block rate easily. Flat bonus can be removed and 3x SPR is enough (this makes the skill is shine on late game, but if there is imba block pen items 4x need)
[/quote]

#6095

Number of heal tiles is capped at 5, as I know, so you will get max heal with c1 cleric already. Also you have mass heal for 30%. Priest is actually the class with biggest heal over here. Add safety zone here and you get the hardest to kill class.

Sure you can’t get all scaling skills, but aspergilium also scales with SPR, and Monstrance does. So you already have 4 scaling skills. It’s more than enough.

I suggested to give dispell to swordies, not hunters.

Yeah, Revive is nerfed because it was too strong. That’s why things are nerfed in PvP. And you’ve said in your previous post that nerfing skills for PvP only is bad. Too much nerf is when character becomes weaker than others. If Stone Skin will be nerfed to 0.8 scaling Priest will still remain in top 3 for sure. Simply stone skin will become not that must have skill.

I didn’t suggest to nerf any skills beside stone skin. And I have no idea what they should do with PD. CC immunity for the whole team is simply too hard to balane.

Removing flat bonus on Stone Skin IS bad idea, since it will force priests to go FULL spr, and make STR/DEX/CON builds unviable. Full SPR will still be the best on my opinion if it scaling on Stone Skin will be nerfed to 0.8-2x. I personally think 0.8 is the best number, though 2x is also acceptable. More is too much. 3x will result in 1500+ block again in late game which is still unpenetrable. It’s dishonest when you can’t deal any damage to enemy team. If they intoduce OP penetration items, it can be buffed again.

#6096

Not any more, Heal tiles now directly increase with level, meaning Lv 10 Heal can place 10 tiles, and Lv 15 Heal can place 15. (Even Lv 16 with Divine Might can place 16 tiles.) This was changed around the end of kTest and is how Heal worked from kOBT’s opening.

This makes Cleric C2 and C3 a lot more desirable when thinking about what class choices to make when playing a Cleric.

7 Likes
#6097

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

5 Likes
#6098

Actually I used information from here:

And if I’m not mistaken on tosbase where the same numbers a few days ago(It seems they were removed)
So I need to be careful with some information then.[quote=“DiscKZee, post:6096, topic:125464”]
This makes Cleric C2 and C3 a lot more desirable when thinking about what class choices to make when playing a Cleric.
[/quote]

Yeah, I already included Cleric C2 in my build due to divine might, and now it sounds even better.

#6099

TOSbase is pretty much an oneman effort from what i’ve heard.

So don’t expect it to be up to date.