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since buffs are magic they should either be targeted on players or cast in an area on the ground.
Why should that be the case? I donāt see area around the caster as an issue, if thatās what you were trying to say. Should you shoot your party members in the leg with an arrow to cast swift step on them since youāre an archer? Your logic doesnāt make sense to me. (sorry if Iām misinterpreting)
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Sorry but thatās a bad idea, that would just inconvenience the PVE game.Some effects already are ground spells for a reason.
If you make targeted buffs youāll have two outcomes:
Buffs become useless: you would need low cooldown or overheat or they would be useless
Buffs become even more prevalent:
The low cooldown and quick recast would make even easier for people to get buffs if they become removable
Itās way more effective(and fun) to introduce counter play mechanics to the actual buffs.Just make sure no class has monopoly on that mechanic
Because getting block penetration is a lot harder then block, so even 0.8 ratio will negate all block penetration enemy has. Itās bot hatred, Iām just forced to play priest c3 now because 2 priest c3 in one party one sidedly destroy any physical based party. Itās simply immunity to physical damage right now.
0.8 would be a good scaling because it already has very high base value.
Changing it into magic damage protection will kill mages in PvP. We will only see full priest parties dominating if it ever happens. Immunity not only to phys but to magic damage is too strong.
Ability to remove buffs will add another super must have class to the game (like priest with stone skin) because 1/3 of characters are completely buff reliant.
I think some OP buffs just need some balancing and it would be nice. If they add some ways for physical classes to counterplay magic it would be even better. But Iām afraid that buff cancelling can totally destroy balance in this game.
Itās far from the easiest way to balance it.
i was told the PVP is alpha stage now. but then its brought up to discussion 
I agree with what you say, the only difference is that right now stone skin adds more than 200% block chance(according to formula). 2x will grant 100% block chance. It is still impossible to counter it even with full blockpen build. 0.8 will grant roughly 50% block chance which is still a lot, and very few people build block penetration anyway. Ability to block 50% enemy attacks is still great. Ability to block all of them is too much.
It just doesnāt have to be extreme removal.
We already have examples in the game itself with opposite conditions:
Haste/Slow
Atk up/Weakened
Thereās also the alternative of categorizing buffs and have individual skills that remove just one type of them.I think Bodkin Point and Hexing are the closest we got in this category
And even more radical, think about Strip Skills from RO.We already have a precedent with Peltasta and Hoplite of temporary gear loss.Remove HSield would remove all of paladin Shield buffs along the shield.
I havenāt gotten to play PvP yet, but I was wondering, does anyone know how Fletchers do in PvP? I was thinking of going c3 Fletcher over Musk/Cannon but Iām not too sure about how it goes in PvPā¦ Thereās also the other thought of dropping Ranger c3 for Archer c2 (Swift step 25% crit rate) but Iām really not too sure if thatāll benefit as much in the PvP scene or not.
Donāt think Iāll be able to make another full character before iOBT comes out. Anyone has any answers on how Fletcher does in PvP so far (does stone skin wreck everything from archer?). Still grinding levelsā¦
Archer and swordsman has 0 damage output against priest. Itās called not defense but immunity. Also priest has decent DPS, especially chaplain.
And yeah, saying that some classes excell at PvP ans some in PvE sounds funny here. Removing all the damage from half of the classes is not āexcellingā. And priests ARE better then swordsman in PvE as well. The first team conquered eartg tower was 2 elems priestpal chronocryo and full tank peltasta. Itās almost only use of swordsmen right now.
And yeah, adding here PD makes it immune to nearly any negative effects in a game.
Also it isnāt like you put 10 points in SPR and have crazy block rate but it is like put 100 points in SPR and have a crazy block rate. Which is essential for clerics who have lots of SPR scalings.
Itās to the extent that 2 clerics will win against 4 fighters/archers w/o a cleric/mage. You will have 100% uptime immunity to damage and can easily heal if random damage gets through. Until you have enough SP you will eventually win.
I agree that some buffs are too good and easy to use, but lots of buffs are eccential for some builds. Removing even 1 of them can really destroy the build(like aspergilium buff for chaplain). I just mean that buff removal is much harder to balance then buff scalings. The basic rules for defensive skills should be a)they should scale worse then offensive skilks(like 0.8 additional block vs 1 block pen) or have much lower durations (like 4x block - full imunity for 10-15 seconds). The first variant is still much stronger tbh, since very few people stack block pen.
Fletchers are decent in PvP but yeah, right now they lose in terms of damage to Musk/Can quite hard. But if you have no priest on enemy party (which are quite rare yet) they are still a decent pick because they have a great utility.
Ah crap, this is honestly quite demoralizing. I was hoping that c3 Fletchersā might have sufficient reason to contend against Can/Musk in PvP. If thatās the case, then it looks like taking Can/Musk is almost a must for an Archer, especially if they want to PvP. The way you described how great Clerics/Mages are in PvP right now is definitely reflective of the current top ranks too.
I think it was 25 Clerics, 23 mages and 2 dragoons? @_@. It looks like thereās no reason to be playing a Swordsman/Archer if one is a big PvP playerā¦ lest they be frustrated all the time.
Just to clarify the block/block penetration formula is the same as the accuracy/dodge formula to find out your block percentage correct?
Not happening sorry 
Letās Nerf everything LOL
Haste
Rush
Sleep
Hangmanās Knot
Meteor
Snipe
Statue of Goddess Ausrine
Mackangdal
Revenged Sevenfold
ā¦ and more
Block can be countered by block penetration and Iron Stone was already nerf along with Revive also Cryo CC got nerf.They just need to buff Swordman not nerf wiz,clerics and archers.IMC just need to introduce more block penetration gear and you need to stack SPR to get that penetration high enough.No need to nerf anything about Clerics yet.
Iām sure their going to more stuff like these and I bet they will have a class that will be able to remove targets buffs,so bro donāt worry relax man.
Letās move on from this QQ on Block none sense.
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Yes, I assumed that the block/penetration formula is the same as Eva/Acc formula.
Also, just to compare the numbers: Full CON swordsman with best shield avialble in the game right now will have 453 block rate (where shield grants only 33, and 280 from CON). 100 SPR priest casting Stone Sking will grant EVERY member of your team double of this amount. And Full SPR priest will grant 3.4 of this amount without a need to even equip a shield (Iāve just found that you donāt need a shield to block while stone skin is active). Itās exactly 192% block chance against 0 block penetration (according to EVA formula). If we are against FULL block penetration enemy letās assume presently unreachable number of 1000 block PEN (max reachable number is around 400-500). It will result in 66% block chance. So if you invest everything in block pen you will be able to land 1/3 of your attacks on enemy. And itās all to counter 1 ability of 1 party member of circle that already has very good abilities such as max heal and revive.
Even if formula is different, it is almost certain that block rate and block pen work similarly to eva and acc, and itās obvious that such a difference in pen and block rate will result in capped block chance (if cap even exists). And you can even use Capella to have 100% uptime of this skill (or simply get 2 priests).
It is obviously too strong for a rank 4 skill. Letās assume it had 0.8 scaling. Then Full SPR priest (which is quite reasonable by itself) will grant 624 block rate which is still much higher than base full CON fighter stats and results in 80% block chance against 0 block penetration (which is standart value for most varriors/archers). So as you can see itās still totally strong, but this way it is possible to counter it with SPR build. Having around 500 block pen (which is insanely high) will result in 16% block chance. And donāt forget that there are lots of block increasing skills/buffs and nearly no block penetrating skills, so itās much easier to reach even higher numbers in block rate but nearly impossible to reach 500 block pen.
And finally, being like that this skill totally kills shield users value in PvP. Why you even need shield if you can get 50(!) times more block rate from single buff.
I wonder what people who put such numbers in game even though about.
The same situation is around defense stats. Those 15-40 defense values are simply ridiculous when you have 3k pattack. Level 15 squire buff results in 0.5% damage decrease. Woohoo.
Only evasion is at least a bit balanced.
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He is hating/raging and QQing on Clerics only and yet Pelt can go to 1800 block rating without Stone Skin.
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Ah I see thatās about what I expected Derael
[quote=āfitzfeliz, post:6075, topic:125464, full:trueā]
are you making those calculations with or without the fact that Guard Ā© from peltasta and rodelero seems to cuadruple(or more) the block rate ? (wich is necesary to play peltasta correctly)
[/quote] I assume he is not as peltasta is another anomaly entirely outside of the issue.
How is Guild Raid?
Any video of of Guild Raids out there?