proxied for science what do you hit x6
for science?
Well, as a Doppel I don’t think you’d use guardian at all, or probably very situational at best. As a Fencer2 tho, I use guardian most of the time for the 18% evasion bonus. My dislike to guardian change is purely because it could be done in a much better way, such as make it a non-permanent buff and remove the -% Phys Atk or toogle-able attribute that switches between % and flat values.
Personally I have never lost my aggro either, but my experience is strictly limited to Siaulai mission, dungeon bosses, and low level world bosses. Pretty sure it would be different at 260+ (?) world bosses. @Proxied should have more experience on this area.
How about we turn Lethargy into % numbers as well, so it can actually be used as designed?
I hate every Peltasta with aggro that keeps jumping around.
Not only they screw my Fireball + PP combo (granting me #1 DPS whenever I can pull it off) by making the boss turn and attack me, but also they always end up being knocked back somehow and the boss will walk away from all the grounded skills our team already used.
Just makes the run a hell lot longer and dangerous (when no Cleric).
Same as what he mentioned - 36k per pouncing slash
for science here’s the most recent video I have
Of course it’s much less (by half? 50% less) if its not on leather
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so basically if the guy hitting the same damage is still having issues keeping aggro
i think there is an even bigger problem going on here
a problem IMCs lovely nerf isnt going to help at all
also hey jake , i hear about you on these threads alot in desu cry threads specifically lol
never thought i would meet
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[quote=“Proxied, post:9388, topic:125464”]https://www.reddit.com/r/treeofsavior/comments/4uyprg/more_buffs_for_tree_of_swordsman_2807/d5udrp9
[/quote]
I believe your calculations might be a little off?
For player Vs. Monster, it’s quite literally 1 def = 1 damage. This might change with % scaling skills like other classes have, but we do not have access to that. So we’re looking at this much damage while under the effect of skull swing to some enemy before the buff
Based on the simplified damage formula:
Damage =
((Aggregate Attack - Aggregate Defense) * Crit factor + Critical Attack + Bonus Elemental Attack + Racial Specific Damage) * T1 * T2 * T3 * Attribute factor + Bonus Damage
Aggregate Attack =
(Skill Attack + Attack + Attack Modifier + Magic Amplification) * T0
Aggregate Defense =
(Defense + Defense Modifier) * Level penalty factor) + Elemental Resistance
Every point of defense you remove from your target enemy means you essentially have that much more attack. Against a WB like Rexipher for example:
Skull Swing will bring that 743 Def down to 0 for its duration.
Lets use a multi-hit skill for example, Sept Etoiles (8 hits):
-
Assume 107 str total (49 invested), that’s 419 attack before weapons.
-
Assume +12 Venier. That’s 231 phy attack + 286 holy property attack.
-
lvl 12 Sept Etoiles will have 444 base attack. This bring up your total attack to 387 + 231 + 444 = 1094 aggregate attack
-
Assume lvl 50 attributes (reasonable amount).
Without Skull Swing/Attaque Coquille
Damage (non-crit) =
((1094 - 743) + 286 (venier holy atk) + 0) * 1.15 (Aggression Mastery) 1.5 (attribute) = 1099~ damage per hit, or 8792 total.
Damage (crit) =
((1094 - 743) * 1.5 + 107 (crit atk w/ 107 str) + 286 + 0) * 1.15 * 1.5 = 1586~ damage per hit or 12688 total
With Skull Swing/Attaque Coquille
Damage (non-crit) =
((1094 - 0) + 286 (venier holy atk) + 0) * 1.15 (Aggression Mastery) * 1.5 (attribute) = 2381~ damage per hit or 19048 total
Damage (crit) =
((1094 - 0) * 1.5 + 107 + 286 + 0) * 1.15 * 1.5 = 3509~ damage per hit or 28072 total
In this particular example, 743 def =
non-crit: 1282 per hit (10256 total)
crit: 1923 dmg per hit (15384 total)
To scale it down towards a more regular encounter (say, 300 def):
non-crit: 517~ per hit (4136 total)
crit: 776~ dmg per hit (6208 total)
This is also ignoring armor types (leather vs plate for pierce) and debuffs (spear lunge from a party member for example or cleave for your slash attack)- especially for low str high dex builds that are already lacking in raw attack power. It is defnitely a lot more than 1def:1attack.
I just spit honest truth bro.
I think Squire requires some adjustments.
I understand its a Role play based class but I constantly wonder how would things go if we had a Pardoners Increased Magic Defense on top of Barrier, and with R8 Alchemist Humonculous… Squires just lackluster for reasons that probably don’t need to hold any longer.
@AEttir
Nope I don’t pair Pel with Doppel. Have you seen the damage we can take with Deeds of Valor up? Heaven forbid I get greedy with Double Pay earn and take a hit prematurely, I am not pulling 9 mobs on my ass. Damage is only going up, which is why you see the defense Enchants on Enchanter.
@Satoru
If Lethargy was a % (at current values) it would trivialize damage for everything that is not a flying mob in the game quite a bit. I mean Shrink Body can reduce quite a lot of damage as is, but you can’t Shrink body everything or bosses which keeps it in line (+ its melee requirement)
Also it generally depends on the bosses. When mobs have attacks that can be jumped over you really don’t have to move at all. The main reason why someone will get knocked away despite this, is being greedy and trying to fit in more attacks instead of playing strictly to the rhythm. Breaking Rhythm can be justified with Pain Barrier since it’ll stop all the knockbacks so you can just power through them if you can survive the damage or have a healer actively supporting you. In the cases of moves where you have to actually move, you can move back into position during the bosses animation lock and that prevents it from spinning around.
Oh I just used the updated str:Dex optimization spreadsheet and used non crit values and it gave me 1:1 except for very high values of def (which I didn’t have in until just now)
which is wrong because I also just went and tested it myself with attaque composee against green minos archer which gave +832 damage instead of just +292
I guess in the end it boils down to our own build after all. You’re not affected in the slightest by this change hence you’re fine with it. On the other hand, some of us affected negatively, or even screwed because of this change, which IMO is a design mistake as you can take better approach to get similar result, hence the dislike.
Been a good discussion for me. Have a nice day
but you need like C2 or C3 Swordsman to actually benefit from Concentrate while Guardian at lv 1 ■■■■■ up majority of people who picked pelt in their builds.
Gung Ho is and will be garbage unless IMC make it % instead of flat and remove the -defense part of that skill. I can’t even imagine how shitty will be Gung Ho if it will reduce defence by % values.
TBH with all those changes IMC is doing to whole Swordsman class… they really should give every player that have Swordsman character free class reset or smth. IMC just ■■■■■■ up most of possible builds with all changes they made so far: Concentration, Guardian Barb/Highlander, Shinobi clones, etc
I was using Guardian all the time since I’m 1str:2dex build so it was boosting my evasion even more. Now I will be forced to forget about that skill and the only usefull skill from Peltasta will be taunt so I can get into grind parties >.>
They just showed BIG MIDDLE FINGER to everyone who picked Peltasta and used Guardian (can’t blame them since Gung Ho is garbage and who with sane mind would even use it not to mention buy it’s attribute that removes your armor even more - concept of reducing armor of a class that needs to be in close range of enemy and eat every attack is stupid as fuck)
IMC idea of “let’s give every class selfbuffs” in nutshell:
Archer -> Swift Step. Buff that makes you move faster while attacking and it also gives you crit chance after getting attribute… no penalty for using it. Kneeling Shot: bonus to dmg, range and attack speed. Sure you are “rooted” in place but that skill have 0 CD so you can always move away and then cast it again when you are in safe spot.
Wizard -> Reflect Shield. Surespell, Quick Cast. None of those buffs have negative effects that make Wizard suffer from using them
Cleric -> Divine Might, Fade, Safety Zone. None of those buffs have negative effects that make Cleric suffer from using them
Swordsman -> Concentrate: garbage unless you are C2/C3 because of hit limit and it’s much better if you are pure/high STR build. Gung Ho: it reduce your armor (attribute reduce it even more) and knowing IMC it soon will reduce it by huge % value. Restrain: Reduce your health, stun don’t work on bosses, it’s easy countered in PvP thanks those retarded dispeller scrolls, Pain Barrier: short duration and it don’t even protect you from stun, sleep or silence. Just knockbacks
And it’s just basic classes. Compare buffs from other classes to buffs from other Swordsman classes. even Rank2 ones.
QS and it’s running shot, Ranger with Steady Aim, Priest/Kirivs with tons of buffs, Cryo with Subzero Shield, Pyro with Enchant Fire… VS Peltasta and Guardian that reduce your ATK … What the ■■■■?
Overall it’s stupid and sad that in whole Swordsman tree there is no normal selfbuff spell (beside that new Concentration that still require C2/C3 and lots of STR) that don’t have odd gimmick/drawback…
Concentration? require C2/C3 and it favors high/pure STR builds so high DEX builds are ■■■■■■. It have limit of hits
Gung Ho? reduce armor and with attribute reduce it even more
Restrain? reduce your HP, stun don’t work on bosses and it’s easy countered by dispeller in PvP
Pain Barrier? short duration, long cooldon and don’t save your from most of crowd control just knockback, knockdown or stagger
Guardian? say goodbye to your ATK if you want to use it even for the evasion buff from attribute
Finestra? gives lots of crit and block but as a price of evasion.
DoV? gives more dmg as a price of reduce defence.
Barb buffs? they are very short and have long cooldown so you can’t achieve full uptime of those buffs.
Double Weapon Assault: it requires you to mindlessly mash Z+C or mash Z while holding C instead of fusing offhand weapon attack to main hand weapon so player would just press Z/click on target with mouse, it drains stamina super fast, it makes weapons break super faster, it makes you immobile.
Jolly Roger requires you to kill monster in quick succession so it’s useless in boss fights and vs monsters with huge hp pool + the damage buff is super small (not to mention it’s bugged now)
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Thank god my Fencer is planed with a decent STR/DEX/CON spread so I honestly disn’t focus 100% in one and thus can change around accordingly to the boss while still dealing damage and gear fixes up any issues that could pop up off the spread.
Geez, god bless future proofing I guess.
Admitedly it’s more of a “Imma do my best to keep the aggro and bring debuffs n’ shiz” path rather than “imma stand here and stab things”.
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@fitzfeliz
Not to mention that even with this, the lack of a skill/class/status reset item…
To even TRY and mitigate how they could potentially destroy builds that were centered around certain skills.
You can buy a skill reset however…
BUT ANY OTHER SELF RESPECTING GAME WOULD INCLUDE THAT FOR FREE!
And the funny thing is that the game is SUPPOSED to be played like this.
Building your class how you want to using tools from other classes to your advantage-
THATS LITERALLY THE POINT OF THIS CLASS SYSTEM!
But more and more IMC seems to want to punish you for doing so.
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Hold your horses, because “we” is a very strong word on that phrase.
Maybe 5% of Swordsmans on this forum understood and accepted that.
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Eh the Guardian change is actually very attractive for certain elite areas where there is a high amount of physical damage that cannot be reduced to 1 in tandem with swashbuckling. In the few situations where turtling in Shield has real value.
Between Aspersion, Guardian 15 and Guard: Defense’s. This is well over 100℅ defense gain plausible. Which works well for Pel as a crowd control alternative by sheer efficiency of physical mitigation. In the small amount of situations where you don’t need more damage but instead more mitigation.
This harms the 1 point wonder for general use but cements Guardian as a defensive cooldown for content with any semblance of difficulty when you opt for a Peltasta as a means of controlling incoming damage.
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Ahem… so what are y’ all betting we are getting this night?
I’m feeling it for archer right now, the group needs something coming their way recently.
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Hoping for cleric… And hoping this is R8 cleric
